Why do you constantly respond to me then? Do you get the irony?
Thatâs based on the presumption that the ownership is the problem. Once you start with that as your premise obviously the solution has to be to sort out the ownership.
Take the speculation out of the picture, is there any reason to believe that all the staff turnover isnât pretty much normal? Edwards has been at the club for a decade or longer, we usually end up changing club doctors every few years or so, and coaches often leave to take up more senior roles elsewhere, which is again, not unusual.
Notably, if you take the claims in the article as accurate, then Edwards wanted a new challenge, and I think specifically outside of football? So we couldnât have done anything to retain him. Nobody knows why Ward left, so itâs entirely up to individual speculation, which often stems from your own prior beliefs. If you believe that thereâs turmoil behind the scenes, obviously itâs natural to then believe that heâs leaving because of this turmoil. If you believe that the ownership situation isnât the problem, then of course youâre going to think of other reasons.
Thereâs a vacuum of information, and so all our personal biases will come to the fore, and weâll only view things through the lens of our personal beliefs.
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All of us can see there are issues at the club. I will attempt to list where there is common ground:
Midfield in need of an overhaul/refresh? Check. No one disputes that.
Bad form from some key players? Check. No one disputes that.
A hangover from going so close to immortality last season? Check, no one disputes that.
A shortened pre season due to World Cup, compounded by our season going so long last time, giving less chance to recuperate? Check, no one disputes that.
Excessive injuries? Check. No one disputes that.
Where it gets more fuzzy is whether or not these obvious things sufficiently explain the current malaise, or if there is something more that is going on.
I think Reddy has a good point as to another key factor, and there has been a brain drain at the club.
The other stuff about power and influence behind the scenes is hard to validate, but when there has been such a drop off in our level, and when there has been so much churn in key positions at the club, the speculation isnât unreasonable.
My own take is that ownership issues need to be sorted out ASAP, because when there is clarity at the top, the rest of the organization can flourish.
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Football is an absurdly copy cat industry, as are most team sports. Once you start doing something that is considered novel or industry leading everyone is going to want to jump on it, and that typically means trying to hire your people. The NFL is a great example with one of the biggest perils of doing well under a well regarded head coach is the league circling like vultures to try to pick off as many of the assitants as possible in the hope they have that special sauce. People may then question why we allow them to leave, but itâs not a realistic expectation. Their success with us earns them promotions elsewhere that there simply isnt the room to accommodate in your own structure as the roles they leave to take on are already filled here.
This is simply the cost of being successful and the key to staying there is dealing with this predictable churn of talented people lower down the Org chart. You can look at ways in which these transitions are managed and be critical (although weâll never have the info to be able to do that, so itâs more of a conceptual point), but you cannot treat the churn itself as evidence of a problem.
The stuff previously reported about the friction between the Medical Department and the Fitness side (Kornmeyer) does seem like more of an issue, and one you can very reasonably tie up a in neat bow that explains a LOT of what weâre seeing on the pitch. You can even use the supposed excess faith in Kornmeyer to explain why there was an overestimation of the capability of the current old guard to keep going this year. If you place weight on this explanation, what that doesnt point to is problems with ownership as this is stuff that simply isnt happening at their level.
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Isnât this eventually what happens with all successful/major companies?
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Like rain on your wedding day?
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Except JĂźrgen.
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I will buy that if he sticks with what heâs got in summer!
I think we donât need an overhaul, not in the sense that most people seem to want.
I think we already have much of the tools we need, we just need to be able to integrate them properly.
Itâs not unreasonable to believe so, but to take it as gospel truth without bearing in mind the uncertainty around the scenarios is what Iâm arguing against. Iâm not even saying itâs all rosy behind the scenes. Another possibility could well be that thereâs open warfare behind the scenes, with everyone fighting against each other, but just too professional to comment about it to reporters. Do I think itâs likely? No. But is it possible? Certainly yes.
And thatâs why Iâm saying that all these things need to be taken with a massive dose of salt.
I personally believe that based on what Iâve personally observed, the level of turnover is not unusual and doesnât even necessarily reflect a âbrain drainâ. I also believe the âownership issuesâ are well overblown and mainly a media and fan issue. If anything, I think itâs amply clear that we went into the summer with a particular plan and stuck to it, even though we had to make adjustments for those situations beyond our control, like injuries.
If you watch the press conferences, JĂźrgen quite clearly believes that the speculation around the ownership are none of his business, which wouldnât be the case if there was unrest behind the scenes over that, would there?
Iâm very much in agreement with @Limiescouse that the whole ownership situation is a storm in a teacup, and that there is way too much being talked about something that isnât that materially different from what has always been the case.
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Seriously you all have to know the priorities. You all rather waste your time here talking about the owners and not try to reverse the tragedy of The Exorcist losing to the Shining.
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I have some sympathy with everything being said.
Still, if there arenât any real issues with ownership, and itâs just normal stuff, seeking investment as always⌠and if there arenât any real issues with brain drain, and this is just normal turnover as in any organizationâŚ
Then it doesnât add up to what we are seeing, for me.
The drop in level has been precipitous, and we do not come across as a well oiled machine that is working harmoniously at all levels, toward a clear vision.
I think there is probably a big disconnect between the coaching team and the Sports science department.
Thatâs because weâre always inevitably going to be focused on our own team.
City have seen a drop-off in form as well, so have Chelsea. But we donât talk about that because (a) we donât care about them as much, and (b) thereâs no convenient narrative for the media to talk about.
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Like a free ride, when youâve already paid?
Chelsea look poorly run to me. They got a massive break with the Abramovich debt being washed away, and then they win the lottery again and have been spending recklessly. At some point they will start to get it together again, but they do look poorly run at the moment.
Man City have dropped off a little too, but I would take their level of regression, last season to this, any day of the week if thatâs what had happened to us!
The irony for Man City is that for all the fawning over Haaland, and he is an excellent player, it is possible that as a team they have not moved forward for having him. They have given up a lot of control in the middle, and teams can get at them a bit more if they have a go.
Still, the headline writers canât see past Haalandâs goals!
These answers are dripping with sentimentality.
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So Ox, Naby ie injury prone players havenât been kept too long? Klopp couldnât have a had a chat and said something like âlove you to bits guys but thereâs not gonna be much game time for you. Could be best to move on.â How do other clubs move players on? Obviously the odd one like Winston Bogarde will stay but most "professionalâ players want to play football. You canât force people out but you can strongly encourage them to leave in the right way and get a fair deal for everyone.
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Youâre right. The midfield is fine. Functioning likely a finely tuned engine. 37 year old James Milner canât play every game. Itâs also an outlier. How many 37 year olds are playing at the very top level? As you grow older you pick up more injuries. Which is what has happened in LFCâs midfield or have I made that up? I love Jordan, Thiago and Milner etc. Semmyâs answer "we havenât found an answer to ageing. Ridiculous, otherwise Billy Lidell would still be playing for us. Bob Paisley had the answer, let a players legs grow old on somebody elseâs pitch.
3-6. I have listened to Kloppâs explanations, doesnât mean I have to agree with ALL of them. Or do I?
While weâre in such terrible form waiting for players to come back from injury, play players in their familiar positions. Klopp played Jordan and Fab (2 midfields) in defence a couple of seasons back. What happened? Then when he played 2 central defenders in defence, kept ghe midfielders in midfield what happened? What lesson did Klopp say he had learned? Play Gapko wide left, Darwin in the middle and Salah wide right. Letâs see what happens.
As regards Harvey playing wide left, hands up those who think itâs a good idea and the best use of Harvey? A player whoâs never played there vs Gapko a player whose position it is.
Constantly letting a wide forward recieve the ball from a 50 yard crossfield pass, control it unchallenged, getting a run at you is a recipe for disaster (I was actually talking about Traore vs Robertson). Nobody was saying the defence should be spread out. Against Wolves we had dropped back into a compact shape, yet Traore still had acres of space.
When the fullbacks play our normal game, I understand they canât be in 2 places at once, itâs a risk vs reward scenario. I canât write a dossier for every single outcome in a game. Itâs a general observation of our fullbacks when in a defensive position.
So yeah, a lot flippant answers from Semmy.
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She doesnât say Lijnders is the problem, but says Kornmayer is the one that is hard to work with and weilds to much influence.
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Elliott has played LW before.
Ignoring our most recent games respectively, they were only 1 point better than us in the preceding 10 games. They also got dumped out of the League Cup by those giants, Southampton. Despite us being supposedly in so much worse a situation than they supposedly were, we still beat them and were more than a match for them.
They havenât even had the injury issues that weâve faced, yet.
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