The Owners - FSG

The Albert
1966

Same here. The anger has subsided and the apathy for it all has set in.

He’s put a target on our back for other fans to take pot shots at us. That’s fair enough, it’s football at the end of the day and some tit is always looking to get a rise out of you.

But what has fucked me off today is thinking back about a year. Clubs that have been putting out statements condemning the plan, and rightly so, are also some of the same clubs that were calling for relegation to be scrapped last year if the league restarted after its suspension. Happy enough to pull the ladder up last year but significantly less hand wringing and backlash about acting in their own self interest from the football world about it.

There were tits like Neville out there calling for null and void on TV because it suited his allegiances. Sky have had money back off of clubs because through no fault of anyone’s doing the games they could get on didn’t match up with what was contracted. More self interest at the heart of it all but this was apparently beyond the pale for them.

Other fans called ours a tainted title and took joy in the fact we couldn’t have a parade. Now they’re outraged that we might not have been part of a competition that they’ve been desperate for us not to win and reveled in us not being able to enjoy our success to the fullest extent.

We’ve given these types the moral high ground when really they’re no less motivated by their own self interests. Now we get the calls to dock us points, relegate us, ban us all spouted with such glee. We face the backlash from other fans and I’m sick of FSG putting this target on our backs for others to have a pop at us.

14 Likes
1967

Just had a look, I can join for £26. Should that give me the same vote as a person who’s spent 30 years on the Kop? Maybe who’s father did the same? See the problem? If one vote only costs £26, can’t be that hard to “massage” tight decisions in the future.

1 Like
1968

In order to have a say in a 50+1 scenario, won’t the fans have to buy half the shares of the club?

If so, it’s not happening.

1 Like
1969

No that is incorrect.

Irony is " ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" - when you have just finished a shift at the local knife factory and the boss says " anyone want to take home some free knives?"

Rain on your wedding day is not ironic - its just fucking raining.

There is not a single ironic thing in that bloody awful song which is almost ironic in itself.

I’m going for a lay down - its been a tough week - Its all getting a bit much. :smile:

8 Likes
1970

See, it’s not even an apology. Henry got into bed with some of the most corrupt, self-serving characters in the game, and he says, with a straight face, that it was a miscalculation (after a decade running a PL club) and he really does care about the supporters and the game. It’s not an apology video; it’s an excuse video.

3 Likes
1971

I admittedly write this post with limited knowledge on the ESL subject and the majority of fan’s opinion but ‘hopefully’ on a general perspective.
Look the whole ESL project was the most ill conceived idea to come about in Football, fullstop. If statements are correct they never consulted Klopp and his management team, the players and more importantly ‘us’ the fans. This was wrong!
I actually believe that FSG were one of the main instigators in the whole ESL saga but the ESL proposition is now dead and buried - thankfully.
Being honest, in my opinion FSG have been good custodians, willing to admit their mistakes and back track, Yes they have made wrong decisions but who hasn’t?
I am not trying to justify their actions, far from it. However, imagine if a Super League was created and it was a success but without us being part of it, i can imagine there would be a load of our fans highlighting a missed opportunity, calling for new owners, etc.

Thankfully, sense has prevailed. John Henry has apologised ~ i accept this is all PR ~ but he didnt have to do the video speech. I actually respect him for that.

So, to conclude. I am proud FSG, through Klopp, Edwards and the players have delivered us a 6th European Cup and a 19th league title. Admittedly, this season has been weird for numerous of reasons, but for people to call for a change of ownership, in my opinion a bit OTT :+1:t2:

8 Likes
1972

Yes, that’s a great expansion on my idea that UEFA offer the compromise of the top 20 or 10 being guaranteed qualification for the CL. Yours is a much better idea, though.

1 Like
1973

There are many different types of institutions in society. Private businesses. Community assets. Cultural signifiers. Religions. Sporting institutions. Trusts. Local employers. Global brands.

Football clubs, especially those at Liverpool’s level, are all these things, and to greater and lesser extents to different people. This creates continual tensions and conflicts as the natural priorities of each are put in competition. The private business side offends the community asset side. The global brand side pisses of the cultural and historic.

Fans display a particular cognitive bias on this, as they want their clubs to be the biggest and best global operators, but also want them to be sensitive and caring community partners. We want clubs to be innovative, forward thinking, and at the forefront of every step forward, while at the same time being deferential to heritage and history. A football club cannot be everything it’s stakeholders want it to be.

Ultimately the identity which wins out will be private business. Boris Johnson cannot and will not force the owners of Premier League clubs to relinquish or sell 50% of their shares to fans. Not only is it an anathema to everything this government stands for, the government would get absolutely smashed in the courts. It is a can of worms nobody wants to open. If football clubs are so important culturally and within communities that their fans must own them, what about all the other team sports? In fact, what about theatres and arts galleries? What about the back catalogues of popular bands and musicians. Let’s not make the mistake of thinking that passion and devotion only exists in football.

About as far as it goes is fan representation at board level. But even that is problematic. Which fans? Season ticket holders? Members? There would have to be some sort of election, and then you end up in the Real/Barca insanity whereby fans make outrageous promises to get elected. It would take a level of maturity and level-headedness that I don’t think fans are capable of. God help us if any of the SOS gobshites end up with real power at the club.

The current situation where clubs limp on, a mishmash of lots of things, sometimes bumping up against competing ideologies within its own identity, is probably ultimately preferable to fully embracing one at the cost of the others.

What I would like to see from the owners is a little bit more openness about what their ultimate aim is with things like Project Big Picture or the Super League. I think I know what they are trying to do, and I think it’s less about greed than it is trying to create a framework by which Liverpool can compete against nation states and oligarchs without being put in financial difficulty.

I said I wasn’t interested in an apology from John Henry, but I would like to understand what they were trying to do. If John Henry came out as said, look we obviously got it wrong on this but the attraction of ESL for us was controlling costs through a functioning FFP and a salary cap, and getting more control of the TV rights to Liverpool FC, I think that would rebuild trust must more than heartfelt apologies that are probably scripted and delivered through gritted teeth anyway.

15 Likes
1974

I just used less words :wink:

Recent election / votes in this country have done far more to harm the country than to help. I remember discussing this at length with a long standing member who for “reasons” is no longer here. Dead easy for him, just vote on some fans to act for the fans. Because all fans have exactly the same views on everything.

It’s not a case of if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, more, if it’s not really badly fucked, don’t risk it getting worse.

As for religion, keep meaning to open that thread :slight_smile:

1975

Agree 100% on that, didn’t hear a pop from them when the league continued throughout a far worse outbreak in December/January/February but then Liverpool had started to lose so I suppose that was all fine.

5 Likes
1976

The other problem with the ESL is that all the clubs had completely different agendas for getting involved. That’s probably why it ultimately fell apart.

We make a mistake to think we can bundle up 15 clubs and consider them all in the same way.

Real and Barca need an influx of cash to stave off ruin. Pérez is running his mouth off right now with the grace of a man who is not only fucked, but has already spent the money that he thought would unfuck him.

Athletico are just trying to hang on to the coattails of the big two in la Liga. Although, they ought to really just let Barca and Real implode. That’s going to be better for them in the long run.

For United and Liverpool it will have been about exploring cost and the right to open up new revenue streams. Salary Cap, FFP and TV rights.

Arsenal, AC Milan and Spurs just want a way back in. Especially Arsenal who are getting towards Everton territory of ‘big club who really aren’t a big club anymore’.

Chelsea and City will have wanted to be involved to cement their status as a football superpower, which they will probably be be insecure about. The line coming out of those clubs - that they were effectively bullied into it - are telling.

Don’t really know what Juve and Inter’s interest is? Maybe someone else who knows more about the Italian league could explain this?

What does FSG learn from this? I think they have to make sure that they read the room right, obviously. Better communication about their intentions and end goals. But critically trying to build alliances with clubs that have different agendas is always going to end badly. Especially someone as unhinged as Pérez.

8 Likes
1977

I think Italy might be they wanted to remain at the top table.

I think in the end you wouldn’t get a salary cap or FFP because ultimately several of the founding members would probably block it once they had got there finances back.

As I said I wouldn’t touch anything Perez is involved in with a barge pole, and I left La Liga Tv on last night after Another two sides were on and I had to turn Madrid off after ten minutes, I absolutely hate them at the moment for some reason.

2 Likes
1978

Yes, he obviously knew what he was doing and the excuse that he withdrew because of fan pressure doesn’t wash because he would have known that was coming. The reason he withdrew was that City and Chelsea withdrew and at that point it was clear that the whole thing was going to fall flat on its arse. That’s why Operation Saveface was launched and the fans suddenly went from being ‘stakeholders’ to being loved up members of the LFC family again.

But I admire that he took full responsibility and I just can’t be bothered to be angry about it any more. I think it will be a long time before he’s seen at Anfield again.

3 Likes
1979

Are these numbers correct? If so, Robbo definitely deserves more money imo.

1980

Nope. Most of them are wrong.

3 Likes
1981

It says this acknowledging that wages will fluctuate depending on appearances, performance and what the team achieves and then it goes and sticks a concrete figure on anyway.

3 Likes
1982

Absolute garbage.

Nat Philips 64K and Robertson 50K!!!

:rofl:

4 Likes
1983

I would add that the sovereign wealth teams are conflicted because they are tied into the morass of UEFA and aren’t bothered by the bottomline argument.

The Italian teams are not far removed from the FSG/LFC position. Remember Milan is owned by Edmunds(?) Fund and Juve esp has been looking for ways to monetize TV rights…

What really galls me is when LFC fans join the crowd so to say, without trying to understand the nuances of the issue and esp what is in it for LFC.

None of those so-called small clubs that our fans are fighting on behalf cared a hoot about LFC when the issue of 5 subs was debated…

6 Likes
1984

Or when they were trying to use the pandemic as an excuse to nil and void the season last year.

9 Likes
1985

Are they wrong as basic salaries? We know that all of our players are heavily incentivised - they will all be earning much more than this but through bonuses and add ons.

1 Like