Lots of stuff being bandid about here’s some facts;
Liverpool have 36 points from 19 games Paul Tierney has officiated
That is 1.89 points per game
Klopp averages 2.44 points per game in games without Tierney
Zero pens awarded from 618 touches inside the opponents box
City average 2.6 points per game in games Paul Tierney has officiated (under Pep)
2.3points per game in games he isnt involved
6 pens from 420 touches inside the box
Liverpool average 1.9 Points per game when Anthony Taylor offciates
2.31 points per game in games he doesnt
6 pens from 998 touches inside the box
166 per pen
City average 1.8 points per game in games officiated by Anthony Taylor
2.44 in games without
5 pens from 791 touches in the box
As a data person, the touches per penalty stat is quite interesting, especially given how similar we are to City in that regard for Taylor. Absolutely horrific reading about Tierney though.
That aside, it’s interesting how we average a similar (to City) number of points with and without Taylor. Do you have more information on the sample? I’m wondering if there’s a systematic bias, or if it’s just a reflection of Taylor getting particular games (which can be seen to be easier/more difficult).
Those sorts of statistic comparisons become very problematic unless the assignment of refs are random, and they aren’t. Bigger games result in bigger name refs getting assigned and the expectation should be that the tops sides have a lower PPG return with those refs than they have overall or with lesser regarded refs who havent yet got the stature to get those crunch games.
I had to read that twice, because it makes no sense.
If impartiality exists then the PPG return should and would be consistent whether its a seasoned ref or a less regarded ref.
Unless you believe that less experienced refs yield higher PPG for the bigger teams??
And again, in the arena of impartiality that makes no sense.
The answer is simpler than that. Tierney is biased against Liverpool. The stats suggest that, and anecdotal evidence underpins it.
Taylor has form against us as well.
The assignment of refs isn’t random. But there is no actual sense in the appointment of these two for Sunday.
No, I believe what @Limiescouse meant was that the bigger names are expected to get the bigger matches more often, which are harder for any team to get points from, independent of referee selection.
I’m actually inclined to agree, hence my earlier question. The context plays a large role, but if e.g. Tierney happens to referee games that are similar in difficulty for us as for other teams but we somehow end up with a lot lower point average, it’s fishy. Think it might be more useful to compare similar fixtures with and without these referees.
These ref threads end up being an accumulation of all the bad performances, so if the thread is used as a snapshot in time it appears the refs are messing us up week after week.
So in the interests of keeping it balanced, I think we can say we were a little lucky tonight. No, there wasn’t a massive game-deciding decision (there rarely is either way) that went our way, but both Fab and Thiago (the challenge on KDB when he was already on a yellow was reckless and somehow we got the free ) were lucky to stay on the pitch. I recall maybe 2 or 3 50-50 free kicks that went against us but many more went for us.
I thought Taylor just wasn’t good in general. Not just the incidents you mention (I was only really worried about the Thiago one though), but also the absurd non-corner that was.
I actually think Taylor is the best of the bunch…can’t recall the “corner” incident so can’t comment but I think he refereed a difficult game very well today…both sides played it in the right spirit which helped him.
Thought overall Taylor was fine, but the corner decision was head scratching, as it was clear even watching on Telly that it had deflected. Also, no yellow for KDB on the late Fabinho challenge was a big miss in my book. 4 yellows for us, 0 for the Mancs. Not that any of ours weren’t deserved.
Big kudos to Liverpool supporters who heaped pressure on Taylor/Tierney yesterday by exposing the utter nonsense of them being appointed to such a crucial match. The eyes of the world were on them meaning their normal biases were negated.
Great work, and the more this kind of action happens the better.
Yeh, I’m surprised more people on here haven’t mentioned that incident. They just want to talk about our yellow cards. I thought I’d logged onto Blue Moon by mistake.
Taylor didn’t referee what was in front of him, he refereed the occasion. Which meant no red cards were going to be given to either side. Tierney and Taylor didn’t communicate very well about our corner. If you remember Tierney checked for handball on that deflection, which must have been relayed to him…so explain that.
That’s because the awarding of a corner is outside the jurisdiction of the VAR.
I have no complaints about Taylor’s performance but only because for once we were the prime beneficiaries of his incompetence. I agree he didn’t want to be seen to be spoiling the occasion by sending anyone off. How else to explain Thiago, for the umpteenth time and on a yellow card, taking out De Bruyne only to be awarded a free-kick? He is just not a very good ref. He never has been and he never will be. Also his Greater Manchester roots make him unsuitable for a game of this importance. Whether he’s biased or not, it looks terrible and also puts him under additional pressure. It was a scandal that Michael Oliver didn’t ref the biggest game of the season.