This makes a mockery of the idea that the match officials are above criticism which has led to many managers and players being fined for expressing their opinions.
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Rugby refs have made mistakes in WC but at least itâs professional communication. Not like a few lads on the beers playing the PlayStation.
The transparency with rugby has ensured this. No way they would communicate like that if everyone on tv and in the ground were hearing the audio.
From the outset VAR has been shrouded in secrecy and these recordings reveal why
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âSsshhhh! Donât show anyone or theyâll laugh at us 
â
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Everything about this organization has a âjobs for matesâ vibe.
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When VAR was first being introduced there were a few outlets covering the limitation over the precision of the measurements, both inherent to the tech and the way it is manually used. The mm offsides were not bad just because they felt overly harsh, but also because the system cannot possibly confidently determine someone is really offside if their measurement is that close. Outside of a few small outlets and independent people the discussion went no where and we were all forced to accept the line that mm offsides were right because they are technically correct because the computer says so.
This is an argument that can only be made by someone who has no understanding of precision instruments and the concept of measurement error. Maybe this isnât something the man on the street knows the details of, but the system was clearly put in place with no one anywhere near it who understood these fairly straight forward ideas that are essential to devising a protocol around its use.
Last year we then had the Sako incident and we were finally told that itâs possible that there are blind spots for the calibrated cameras and so it was possible some sequences wont be able to get the position of the offside player and the kick of the ball in the same frame. We were by then 4 or 5 years into the VAR era and were only then learning about a huge limitation.
Now, these limitations are not themselves deal breakers. Every technology has them and part of using them responsibility is knowing the limitations, building processes around them and being clear with everyone who has a stake in what youâre doing what those limitations are what is not possible. To that point I think a huge part of what VAR has unleased is a negative reaction to a standard of perfection they were never going to be able to meet because they have done pretty much nothing to explain what is and not possible and often when they have spoken on this they have been shown to be wrong. Iâm not sure whether their lack of being up front and proactive on that communication was naĂŻve inept PR, or a lack of understanding of the technology they were using to change the game they were in charge of.
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I vote idiots. Itâs quite clear the whole organisation is full of idiots, who understand neither technology nor football.
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Have the feeling LiVARpool will be back for the rest of the season and Iâm more than happy with that.
Referees will think twice from now on before giving our player the obligatory early yellow card.
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Do you really, I can see the retaliations coming from miles away.
Not sure if this can be compared to our situation. 30 years ago and and different time.
But match got a replay.
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This article mentions that Michael Oliver appeared to be well aware of what was unfoldingâŚ
âI canât do anythingâ: world of VAR removes power of rational thought
Story by John Brewin â˘58m
âRelease the tapesâ was the call around the world. The Professional Game Match Officials Limited Stockley Park basement tapes proved to be less Richard Nixon than the sound of confusion, resembling a group of middle-aged novices attempting to play World of Warcraft.
As anatomies of disaster goes, the ruling out of Luis DĂazâs goal at Tottenham turned out to be a case of incompetence rather than deep-state conspiracy. The heroes of the hour are revealed to be the on-site replay operator Mo Abby, first to spot the problem, and Oli Kohout, the VAR Hub operations executive, who, off-mic, urges the delay of the match. Already though, the names of the VAR, Darren England, and assistant VAR, Dan Cook, are hurtling towards infamy. And neither Abby nor Kohout are members of Howard Webbâs select band of officials deemed exclusively capable of operating VAR in the Premier League, from whom there have been 14 apologies since the beginning of last season.
If there is a benefit to be gained from England and Cook taking their eye off a pixelated ball, it is to show that on-field refereeing expertise is little guarantee of excellence in sweeping up mistakes made on the pitch when viewing them in UHD. Perhaps computer whiz-kids, esports specialists, those of greater hand-eye coordination and grey-matter twitch fibres, with a firmer grasp on technology, are VARâs best foot forward. Webb himself lamented in May that âweâre not able to go outside of the refereeing fraternity to employ VARâ.
Before being stood down, England was supposed to be fourth official for Nottingham Forestâs 1-1 draw with Brentford the following lunchtime and Cook expected to run the line as Fulham played Chelsea at Craven Cottage. Are refereeing resources spread too thinly, officials asked to multitask beyond their skillset? Within the Premier League statement to accompany the transcript and video was an admission that âwork is ongoing to create a dedicated pool of VAR specialistsâ
The two minutes and nine seconds video released goes little way to satisfying those associated with Liverpool nor those who see VAR as a Pandoraâs box wreaking severe damage to the spectacle of football. It ends in pathos. âI canât do anything, I canât do anything,â mutters England, before his bleeped-out swear word introduces the fade-out.
Just before that, the confusion has descended to such a level that Michael Oliver, the fourth official, speaks quizzically for the first time, confused that the calls for âOliâ are for him and not Kohout. Previous glimpses under the VAR bonnet have revealed the matey use of nicknames between these usually balding men from the north, itself something of a reflection of the lack of diversity within football officialdom. âThatâs wrong that, Daz,â laments Cook, to England. Not that recruiting anyone to work in this sphere will be made any easier by the vilification that followed Saturday night at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium
Working in VAR sounds complicated, pressurised, thankless. It has also made the actual refereeâs job even harder. So many plates to spin. The DĂaz video begins with the frantic headset discourse between a referee and his assistants that happen within every match. âBoth holding,â says the breathy first assistant, Adrian Holmes, his and the referee Simon Hooperâs voices heavy with the effort of keeping up with Premier League players of Olympian speed. âWaiting ⌠waiting ⌠delaying,â announces Holmes after Mohammed Salah releases DĂaz, as if to remind himself not to wave his flag until the sequence of play has finished.
âGive it,â says Simon Long, the second refereeâs assistant, as DĂaz nets. But what is âitâ? A goal or an offside? Here the chaos begins. England, the VAR, perhaps not so fresh off his trip to the UAE, takes up the cudgels.
âKick point, please,â England says, businesslike in issuing instructions to Abby. âGive me 2D line ready after this one for frame two after that.â It sounds like the type of terse exchange overheard in air-traffic control. After Abby produces the lines to show DĂaz is being played onside by Cristian Romeroâs boot, England and Hooper celebrate their job well done, another bullet dodged.
England: âCheck complete, check complete. Thatâs fine, perfect.â
Hooper: âCheers mate.â
England**:** âThank you mate.â
Hooper**:** âWell done boys, good process.â
It has been no such thing. It is left to Abby and Kohout to tell England and Cook where theyâve gone wrong. âYeah,â says Cook when an incredulous Abby asks if he is happy with what is happening. By now, Tottenham have restarted the game, and quickly, too. Their players sense they have got away with something.
Not shown on the PGMOL release, but visible elsewhere, is the moment that Hooperâs earpiece informs him of the mistake, his face ashen. Again, Abby and Kohout have been the adults in the room, advising England to stop the game, to restart. On the field, nothing major has happened. Stopping the game now, awarding the goal would be the only practical, sensible course of action.
Instead, âwe canât do anything, we canât do anythingâ is a lament to highlight that even if something should be done, VARâs hold over the gameâs officials extends to the removal of rational thinking.
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Itâs a scenario that has both made a case for the removal of VAR and not.
But it also one of those things that is rare and needs to be fully reviewed.
This sits alongside the goal that goal technology didnât pick up and technically sent Sheffield United down and kept Villa up. You could also put it alongside the Pickford horror lunge on VVD which regardless or not dangerous play is dangerous play even on an offside.
I think what shocked me about it and has left me feeling bitter is they feel able to engage in the Jones decision but minutes later cannot intervene when theyâve made a colossal error.
Youâve purposely chosen to disallow a goal, the image didnât appear 5 minutes later which annoying would have at least been on the technology it was there, the mistake is realised seconds later.
Quick thinking idea would be explain the situation make the ref do a VAR signal and he goes over show the image on screen, ref looks and gives it and itâs all fair and then we end complaining about subjective stuff which youâll never win an argument as Iâve said before a fair few other clubs get shat on.
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There have been a number in UK Ghost goal - Wikipedia
Donât remember any of those games being replayed. From memory, the only P/L game that did get replayed was the game when Arsenal scored from a throw in after the opposition put the ball out for an injury so were expecting the ball to be returned, but Kanu decided to have a shot and scored. Wenger later offered to replay them game.
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Notice all but 2 predate VAR and one of them didnât have it.
As I said that Goal line stood out. I do feel that should have been given by VAR but apparently they said they couldnât do anything.
Sound familiar?
The Arsenal re fixture was in a FA Cup game
Lots of fans from other top clubs have all got opinions on this⌠They need to remember, Spurs might nick a top 4 place from any of them by 2points - Be it Man Utd, Chelsea, even Arsenal or SandcastleâŚ
Can you imagine the screams of injustice by them, and crying out that the game should have been replayedâŚ!!!
These fans need to think long and hard, how they might also be impacted by the VAR fuck-up, come the end of the season
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But my point was that it was only replayed after Wenger offered the replay. Had he not done that, the original result would have stood as the FA wouldnât have had the balls to step in
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Daz removed from all Liverpool games this season.
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Anyone named Darren is hereby disowned by all LFC supporting householdsâŚunless they legally change their name.
(I have an Aussie mate Darren who is a fellow red, wonder what he makes of this)
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Just Liverpool games and not all? Someone must have found something untoward.
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