The Unreliable LFC Transfer Rumours Discussion Thread (Part 3)

Rumour Mill
3506

Except I think it is quite clear that Carvalho is a huge level higher than Harry Wilson in terms of ability (and could very well be good enough to make a spot his own with time… just not immediately).

In terms of his failure at Leipzig… what failure? Leipzig had no incentive to develop him and received Xavi Simons on loan who they chose to play ahead of Carvalho (thus wasting his time on the bench).

Leipzig had no incentive to help him develop for the long run and thus the unfortunate circumstances.

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3507

Being serious about his career does not mean he makes the best decisions or set himself up properly mentally wise. If he goes to Arne and demands to be a priority in the first team, he will find himself frustrated and disappointed. The fact is there are a number of players better than him or more established in his positions. If he is serious, then he has to be prepared to be sitting on the sidelines most of the time, coming on as substitute, playing in cup games and when players get rested or injured, and then perform to the great level a Liverpool player needs to. If he can do that, he will have a chance to play himself into serious contention, just as how Elliot, a player who might not be better skills wise but basically played his way in and earned the right to be a serious contender for every match.

Add: Elliot was basically asked to play a few positions and whether in starting or as substitute, I think we all can see that fire and desire to stamp his presence in games. That’s what Fabio needs to be, playing anywhere and everywhere and adapt to the team not thinking that he can only perform when he plays in certain positions. I hope he stays, he has positive things to say of Arne and hopefully they can find a way to develop him and integrate him into the team.

3508

Never said otherwise. I only said there’s really no evidence that he doesn’t have the mental strength to carry through his very obvious talent.

There’s no evidence that he’s demanding to be a priority, and it’s not a fact that we have a “number” of better players in his “position”. More established, maybe, but not better.

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3509

I’d say physical strength is more of an issue. He’s too easily brushed off the ball.
That can be worked on, but the main issue is his position. He isn’t a winger or a midfielder really. The closest we’ve had is Coutinho and we don’t really need that type at the moment.

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3510

Personally for these squad players I would go…

Jaros - Keep
van den Berg - Sell
Morton - Sell
Clark - Loan
Gordon - Loan
Doak - Keep
Carvalho - Keep

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3511

Wasn’t it because they signed him, only to immediately sign Simons in the exact same position?

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3512

Personally I’d keep Van Den Berg. He loan last season showed he is good enough to have a spot in the squad. That is, unless he wants a starting spot, in which case I would treat him the same as Cavalho - loan to a Premier League team with clear targets of game time, which can be reviewed in January and if the club aren’t holding up their end of the deal, we can recall.

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3513

Yeah I wouldn’t be against keeping him either but I feel like he isn’t quite the level of athlete we are looking for as a long term first team player. Just a tad slow, a tad lacking in agility and change of direction.

If we can move him and get someone who ticks those boxes I would do it.

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3514

As we are seemingly promoting some of the youngsters that we have witnessed play into the squad, or put another way, keep, sell, loan and, not sure either way. Are we basing their talents on timeline against the plateau they hopefully reach…(eventually) or, are we basing their worth on the here and now requirements. :thinking:

It has me wondering, because LFC may well become, or is already, a hot press factory line of young talent. If this is the case, this young talent, are obviously going to put pressures on the youngsters a level above them… are they better or worse prospects, and do these fledglings need to be brought into the overall equation.
Quansah this time last year anyone…?
Nyoni this time last year anyone…?
Danns this time last year anyone…?
Etc Etc…
My point being, in the landscape of the academy… who is best placed to wield the axe, and at what age can these decisions be deemed fair to the young lads who have obviously all got good potential, and hopes for the future career.
For example: Is a 16yr old prospect that is expected to start reaching his potential 7/8yrs down the line, going to be of any use to Slot.

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3515

Maybe Carvalho is a better player but we also have a better squad than when Wilson was about so situationally I don’t see a huge difference.

The Leipzig loan was an undoubted failure but not just of his doing. But he’s not really proven himself beyond Championship level at this point. Whilst that doesn’t necessarily mean he couldn’t it’s just a step up he’s yet to fully make.

I like the kid, think he’s a decent player but as you say, he needs developing and I don’t see where he’s getting the game time here to do that. It’s not as if we’ve reduced our forward options at all. I’m not sure another loan is the right option at this point either.

If we could get £20m with a reasonable buyback clause I think that’d be the best solution for all. Unless perhaps Diaz goes somewhere…

3516

I would also keep VdB. With Konate’s consistent injuries, we could use him. Robertson has also been picking up injuries quite often recently so VdB could be useful as backup.

3517

We are in rarified air competing at the very top. I would probably be a bit more ruthless on some of the younger players I would let go.

For example, we have some midfielders who are already tidy players, and they will improve further with more game time as they go. But even then, I’m not sure they will be of the level we need. So for me, the likes of Morton and Clark should be sold.

Arguably they could be squad men for us now, but we have a lot of midfielders and I don’t see them any higher than 8th - 9th choices, at which point they would be better off moving.

I would sell, so long as the price was reasonable enough.

In turn it will help free up some space for the next batch of midfield youngsters to stake their claim, and at that point, Bajcetic and Nyoni look the best two young midfielders, with the latter obviously being too young to factor much in the first team set up yet. But he has lots of time.

We should continue to recruit at all levels - hopefully a deal completes, and Zubimendi coming straight in to help improve us is great. And we also need the best smattering of kids, so the very best of them get into the first team reckoning. Most won’t, but they will still have decent careers and could easily retire as multi-millionaires.

In addition to Morton and Clark, I would also sell VdB and Carvalho.

I know it is four good players, but I’d be ruthless. Reinvest the ~ 75M.

Loan moves are appropriate too, at the right stage. I would send Doak out on loan if a Prem club will play him. He needs to see action. We know he is a good player, but what we don’t know is if he is good enough for our first team set up. Loan him out and let’s find out!

3518

I just don’t think we’ve seen enough of Bobby Clark as yet - what we have seen has been very good, but he was very unlucky with injuries. I’d like to see him get a loan move for regular football, rather than sell.

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3519

Bobby Clark only turned 19 in February, I don’t see the need to sell yet. A good loan spell somewhere would only make him valuable.

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3520

That’s a fair point, we haven’t seen a whole lot of him. So I would be fine if he was loaned! Mind you, presumably the club known what he can and can’t do, and has a good handle on whether or not he is likely to break into the first team set up, given all the other midfielders we have.

If the club does not see him getting any higher than about 8th in the current pecking order, I would sell. If the club thinks he might, I would loan.

Compare it to Bajcetic. As it stands he is about 7th-8th in the midfield pecking order, but there is a nagging suspicion among fans that once he gets his feet under him again, he could perhaps go on to become a first team regular and boss it for us.

If he won’t see enough first team action at present, a good loan move for Bajcetic would be in order.

Edit:
Good point on Clark’s age, @Sweeting. I thought he was a bit older. That now tilts it to a loan for me, as he has more time on his side.

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3521

But how else are we going to get the shiny new toy?

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3522

I highly doubt this is the case for most clubs. I don’t think we’re that different. There’s a lot that can happen in the 4 years after one turns 19. I think Jürgen always viewed players younger than 24 as youth players.

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3523
3524

Top speed isn’t as important for a CB as the first step speed, in my opinion, and from what I’ve seen he’s a bit slow in that aspect.

I’d rather have the 60m world champion play football than the 100m world champion, for example.

I’m not against van den Berg staying but I think there are more explosive athletes we could target. If it means moving vdB on to go and get them I’d be fine with it.

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3525

First step, first few steps, and ability to turn and change direction sharply are all crucial, as an attacker will want the ball on the deck trying to move you around. Top sprinting speed is something, but it’s not as important as these other things.

He’s a decent player, but decent isn’t good enough for this Liverpool team. If he stays he will be a young cb who will only be an occasional rotation option.

It’s best for all concerned if he is sold and carves out a career for himself elsewhere. That’s what I expect to happen.

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