The only thing I can think is the homegrown element for Phillips which is going to be a factor.
I’d be disappointed for Kabak as he’s done very well.
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Really disappointed. He’s been excellent. I’ve said this before, but he’s 20 years old, came into a crisis back four, on his wrong side, and being asked to play against his natural game (he’s a lot more front foot that we’ve needed). I don’t know what else he could have done really.
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I don’t think we will get £10-15m for Nat Philips.
Rather than investing £18m for Kabak, it makes sense to keep Nat as the 5th CB and invest the Kabak money on a better (in their view) CB.
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If we’re bringing in Konate as it sounds like we might be then I can see the sense in this.
Ignoring the injury recovery issues for a moment, Konate arriving would give us four very very strong centre back options in him, VVD, Gomez and Matip. Realistically adding Kabak too would mean five very strong options, of which Kabak would be fifth choice. And for the £18m fee we’re talking about that seems like a lot of cash for a fifth choice option if you’ve a homegrown player that can do a serviceable job already on your books.
Phillips won’t ever be a long term first choice option and I’m sure he knows that. But he’s also been limited to playing alongside centre mids, a guy who only arrived in January and an even more inexperienced player in Williams. He’s a perfectly serviceable player we can utilise now and use the money we’d have spent on Kabak on midfield or up front.
We might come to regret it as Kabak is a promising talent and has done well. But if all goes well next season he’d likely see limited game time anyway.
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I’d be happy if we kept Kabak, but if it came down to a choice of either him or Phillips, I’d take Phillips 1, as he is English, so counts towards the hoegrown quota, and 2 he is a bit of a throwback CB, so offers something more that we don’t get from either Gomez or Matip in terms of an aerial presence. Could be a could rotation option for VVD in games where we expect a big old lump of a CF (I’m looking at you Andy Carroll) and would be a great option for domestic cup games.
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Yep can’t disagree with any of those points.
I’m sure I’ll get pelters but my view is Kabak is miles ahead of Phillips in pretty much all areas bar heading it and even then Phillips is only great at heading the ball when its directly to him… He does miss an awful lot of headers from missjudging the flight. Considering Kabak is 3 years younger if it was a straight choice between the two I’d be going Kabak everytime.
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Think we should be a little realistic about the fee we can get for Nat.
I didn’t think we’d buy Kabak, so for me there’s no surprise there if that’s the case.
If we need an additional cover, like a 5th option on paper for next season or at least the start/half of next season, maybe someone like Nat stays.
What I’m 100% sure is that Klopp himself doesn’t know yet with which CB’s he’ll start the season, there a little thing called pre-season before that and a lot of stuff can happen until then.
I expect Konate, the injured trio to return and then assess the situation over the summer. Possibly Nat stays, maybe until January, but the priority is still to sell him in one of the next 2-3 windows at most (when he’ll have a year left in the summer of 2022).
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But we can’t ignore injury issues…and for that reason Kabak would likely be 3rd choice if he is more robust
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I understand your larger point but the pedant in me has to point out that Carroll is likely to be released at the end of the season and unlikely to get another PL shot.
He signed for Tenerife on my FM game which seems almost too perfect.
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Any chance we can sell Matip and keep Kabak?
No offence to Joel but you have to imagine that VVD, Gomez and Konate would be ahead of him especially with his injuries. Keep Kabak and Phillips for when Gomez gets injured in October.
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We can’t be sure yet how VVD and Gomez will come back from their injuries but the signs thus far seem positive. Matip has always had niggly ones rather than big long absences so hopefully this extended break and the summer will give us a chance to sort him out. I won’t get into the Konate injury proneness debate but we aren’t spending £30m-£40m on him and not hoping he’ll be a key player in there for us.
So all being fit Kabak would likely be fifth choice if Konate comes in. We need depth obviously but we can’t plan for losing 3-4 centre backs to season-ending injuries before Xmas, it’s just not feasible to carry a squad to do that. And I’m one of those who argued we went into this season too light at centre back so I’m very much in favour of having depth.
I imagine if they elected just to go with Konate, keep Phillips and not make the Kabak deal permanent then they must be pretty confident in the recovery of the guys we’re currently missing. A centre back this summer is a must, two would be a luxury we might not be able to afford when we have options already in the squad and holes to fill elsewhere.
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“Anyone want to buy a constantly injured CB on big wages?..anyone??”
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I can’t remember a long period where Matip has been fit. Certainly not for past 2 years. At the very least there is some uncertainty re VVD, Gomez and Konate. I think Kabak would get plenty of games. And at 21yo could still prove to be the best option to partner Virg
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Maybe a lower Prem side might fancy that? Matip is just unable to play at a long stretch of games without being injured. Maybe without the demands of European football, his body might cope better…
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I get where you’re coming from and can see the value in making the Kabak deal permanent. And we could come to regret not keeping him if he goes on to do great things elsewhere.
But, £18m isn’t an insignificant amount of money in this market, especially if we don’t make the Champions League and there will only be so much money to spend. In midfield, we’ve got a pair whose injury records are on par or worse than any of our centre backs, an ageing skipper who is prone to his own niggles, a 35-year-old in the twilight of his career and our most reliable option in terms of fitness and availability is off on a free.
So that £18m could be the difference between Sander Berge and Yves Bissouma for example. And you’d expect whoever comes in to replace Gini would see far more game time than a fifth choice centre back unless we have a repeat of the previously never seen run of long term injuries. Add in the fact we’d still have Phillips as a fifth choice option and Fabinho at a push and it’s not hard to see why they might be thinking of not making the Kabak deal permanent.
An ideal scenario would be to loan him again for a year with an obligation to buy and then move Matip on next summer. But that deal might even be beyond Edwards’ powers of persuasion.
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I said in the Kobak thread that with Konate coming in for near €40m do the club have another £18m for Kobak when VVD, Gomez and Matip will all be back?
For me the midfield needs a rebuild as well with Ox and Nabby going (youd pressume), Milner older, Hendo injury prone and Gini going on a free.
Talk is Kobak is going to RB when Konate comes to us.
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The problem is that whilst we might be getting rid of Carroll, there will be another big old lump of a CF that will spring up - most likely wherever Sam Alladyce/TonyPullis/Woy/Moyes end up.
Phillips is the 1 CB we have other than VVD that would thrive in a match against that sort of CF hence why if it came down to a choice of 1 or the other, I’d reluctantly go for Phillips - and that hurts me because I was a massive advocate of him being given his chance when VVD and Gomez both got injured.
Plus we were interested in Botman?
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Ha ha! That’s even more than Gareth Bale!
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I reckon neither of them would be up for being 5th choice at CH if Konate is signed?
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