We added Jones and Thiago in the last two seasons. Gini and Lallana moved on. Numbers wise, we’re fine and the balance is there. It’s just the injury issues with Ox and Keita that really cause us the problems and as someone has pointed out, both were available far more often than you think but simply weren’t used. As for Milner, he’s still one of the fittest in the squad so I don’t know why people think he can’t contribute.
A couple of outgoings first and then a midfielder will arrive I’m pretty sure. I’d guess they make that happen now with half an eye on Milner retiring next summer and then not needing to directly replace him as the new guy will be settled in.
But if it’s a case of midfielder or forward because we can’t make the outgoings happen that we want then I’m thinking forward is more pressing. Two off to the AFCON, no alternative to Bobby and really only Elliott and Jota as depth unless Origi sticks around which I think we’re all hoping he doesn’t. However, I think by the end of the window we’ll see a new midfielder and forward here.
I think for Gini, he is somewhere between some of the overestimation and underestimation of him as a player. He is no world class high profile name but he was described as a legend by Klopp for us not just because he was always available but simply he plays that role that allows the rest of the team to function and troubleshoot when other parts of the team is not playing that well. I use to play in a band and sometimes with the bass guitar, it is not always noticed when they are playing but the moment they stop playing, you noticed it. This is probably one of the best ways to describe a player like Gini and Hendo. They are very important and whoever comes in as a replacement for him need to be able to, on top of staying fit, to be able to cover big spaces throughout the whole game, to hustle and bustle, to keep the ball in the keep spaces and distribute it someone else who can start an attack.
As for the ‘Naby and Ox were available more often than you think’ argument:
The problem is when they play they get injured, more often than not. Them not playing and not being injured isn’t an argument against this point.
The fact they were fit and still not being played kinda indicates what Klopp thinks about their usefulness. Ox in particular looked like a shadow of his former self, and Naby was pants when he played for the most part.
Even without their chronic injury issues I’d still be arguing one would need to be moved on in order to bring in someone better.
They don’t get injured more often than not. Keita had three injuries last season and an additional absence through Covid. Ox had one injury last season, albeit one that forced him to miss a decent chunk of time. On either side of his two big injuries (2017/18 and 2020/21) he missed 11 games through injury, which isn’t as bad as is being made out to be.
If Klopp didn’t think they were useful they wouldn’t be in the squad. The fact they didn’t get used much in the back end of the season despite being fit was probably because the team had started winning but we still had kids playing centre back so he used his most trusted players. In one of the biggest games of the season he played Keita. He was shite but if Klopp had no faith in him he wouldn’t have done that.
I’m fine with moving either or both on in time but if they are so chronically injured, get injured more often than not when they play and both are performing shite, we aren’t going to have that many buyers who’ll give you anything close to worth accepting a deal.
Feels a bit like the Matip situation. In order to sell them for a decent fee, they need to put a run of games and performances together. But if they put a run of games and performances together, why would we sell them?
You’re missing the point. They get injured when they play, when did either last put together a run of more than a few games before tweaking something? But if they’re not playing, then that removes the primary factor that leads to their injuries.
Or to put it another way, had either Naby or Ox been given a run of games at any point last season, I can near-guarantee you they would have been injured - because historically that’s what has always happened - just as will happen if we’re forced to rely on them this season coming.
Not to forget that neither Hendo nor Thiago have unblemished injury records either. Two-thirds of our first-choice midfield is almost guarnateed to miss a chunk of any given season.
Maybe unfortunate timing of his injuries? My recollection may be bad but I recall our injury troubles (and shifting players to the backline) in the middle being prior to Feb when Naby was almost always unavailable due to injury. When he was fit, Fab, Thiago and Gini were the go-to trio in the middle. Players get rewarded for performing and those three did. Sure there may have been a couple of opportunities where Naby could have been used but wasnt (Fab playing CB against Leeds and Milly being used in midfield) but this could be due to wanting extra leadership on the pitch? Against Newcastle again Fab played CB but we played with our 4 attackers and a double pivot. I think most other games Fab, Gini and Thiago played together post-Feb didn’t they?
It may be that Thiago and Keita are competing for the same position, or there could be as you suggest something else going on behind the scenes. The string of games at the tail end of the season where he didnt make the bench ahead of Clarkson and Woodburn though is suspicious. Maybe throwing the youngsters a bone to keep them interested? Ox and Shaqiri made the bench more often than him as well so may be something there.
I see where you are coming from, however the boss has alluded to both picking up injuries for different underlying reasons, and that these problems would be sorted by extended work done away from the pitch - in the case of Ox, he missed pre-season and was never able to build his match fitness. With Naby, there have been a series of jiggles that needed sorting
It was just painful watching Ox, he just looked so slow and off the pace. I’m not sure that’s down to missing preseason, I think it’s the cumulative effect of so many injuries (see also: Sturridge).
And in Naby’s case we’ve been hearing that from almost the moment he signed. There always seems to be extenuating factors of some kind, but I’d suggest that after three seasons he’s not suddenly going to gain Gini-like fitness.
We could probably carry one of them in the squad, but both feels reckless.
There certainly are a lot of unreliable rumours about midfielders going around. They all seem to be priced at 60million although probably worth 30-40m.
Yes, but they both desperately needed minutes in a season where solidity was absolutely required. Koop could not get them the minutes they needed in order to gain form. I don’t think that happens this season. Whether or not they can actually stay fit is still up for debate, but Klopp will at least be able to get them the minutes they need in a season where our back line is sorted.
Cheap forwards are creeping up in price, both fee and wages. At that point perhaps we are thinking this is getting closer (not close, but closer!) to Mbappe money, so we might as well keep our powered dry and not go in for the likes of Malen?
It’s just not true though. Ox had one injury last season and it came in pre-season. Keita’s two longest absences last year were due to Covid and then an injury not sustained during a game as he completed the full 90 minutes.
You can’t say not playing them removes the primary reason they get injured when that isn’t the primary way the injuries occur. You might think a run of games would have caused them an injury but equally, a run of games could potentially help them get properly match fit, get their bodies more used to the demands of playing to that level.
However, I fully agree there is a degree of jeopardy with both of them on that front. But we finally found a system that was getting us results at the back end of the year so the limited minutes both saw was surely far more down to wanting to maintain that momentum rather than protecting them so they didn’t get injured.
As I said, I suspect we buy a midfielder anyway. If we sold Naby or Ox then maybe we get two but I just don’t see us being able to get anything close to what would make us consider moving them on right now.
We have a squad to protect ourselves in case of injuries. If players weren’t at risk of getting injured, we wouldn’t need quite so many centre midfielders to begin with.
