The Unreliable Rumours Discussion Thread (Part 1)

[nikz200]

@redfanman

Who really cares about whether we are hailed as kings or called disasters, it’s much simpler than that. We have a club that is doing its best to bring long term success to the club, and if we don’t win major honours this season, we know we will go again next year.

The window to winning major honours for any club sometimes can shut at any given moment.I am not obsessed with the transfer market nor do i care or think its the basis for anything. But the success of Liverpool FC during this time is important. Obviously many of the fan base want this team to be dominant and establish itself as a dynasty under Jurgen Klopp. Jurgen himself said the players and the club is hungry for silverware and that is simply why everyone is a bit on edge. Cause they want to defend the title and they want to win things. If the team plays and wins and keeps the level of tenacity and vigour, i would say well played and lets see where it goes. That is something i have no doubt about. We amongst our fan base are already calling our team “best in the world” etc. I honestly dont think or care if our team is the best in the world. I care that the organisation strive to do justice to the manager, players and the loyal fan base of the club, thats all.

We all want the same thing, we want the club to be great, and now is that time. I have full confidence in jurgen and the staff. There are so many things i like about our squad, but obviously where there can be a chance to improve the quality, sometimes i like many fans just want to be able to point it out. I dont see what is wrong with that.

[Walshy07]

The problem is no one wants to pay £20m for Wilson. If he does go it will be for £12-15m.
I dont think we will get what we originally wanted for fringe players now.

[redfanman]

Personally think things are getting blown way out of proportion.

It’s almost like anyone who wants to see any incoming player for any reason at all is being treated like they are ungrateful, not celebrating success and disrespectful to the way Klopp works.

Simply straw manning at its finest. As i recall the only person calling for us not to sign someone this window was actually you on the grounds that it would be immoral to do so in the depths of the covid epidemic.

[FGred]

Dont forget quite a lot of the twitter criticism of FSG and the manager are trolls and the few genuine fans bemoaning the lack of transfers were the same ones doing the same last year including ex LFC players We have to trust the owners and the management of the club who must balance spending and revenue dwindling by the day don’t forget Also managing the consequences of COVID-19

[Sweeting]

I don’t mean that Brewster has to be a mini-Firmino to make it here (it would probably help though!). The problem for me is that scoring at youth level is pretty easy, scoring at Championship level is a mark of a good player but the Premier League is a whole different ball game. We’ve seen all sorts of no names get goals at Championship level and never replicate it at PL level.

Now, obviously, Brewster hasn’t yet had the chance to show he can do it as PL level but that’s kind of my point. Klopp has never used him, never trusted him and when he does get on the pitch (I’m thinking of the cup games last season) he was invisible. Premier League defences know how to deal with players like him, - pure finishers - now so you either have to be exceptional, like Mason Greenwood, or you’ll be an also-ran for your career. There’s no guarantee he could score goals at this level (and yes, I acknowledge there is no evidence he can’t either).

I’m not writing him off, I’m not saying he’s a bad player and I’m not saying his style of striker cannot work for us but I am saying that everything coming together for him looks a long shot. If the goals dry up, as they did in the cups last year, he offers nothing at all to the team.

Solanke at least offered a physical body who could barge into people. Origi similarly is a strong and quick player that defenders hate to see late in a game. Little Rhian, with a slender frame and only decent pace - I’m just not seeing how it’s possible for him to be a success here. £20m would likely fund a move for Thiago and that’s going to be much more beneficial for the team than hoping Brewster makes a miraculous improvement.

[AnfieldRdDreamer]

@rab

I haven’t seen one person advocating we don’t spend at all (although there was someone on the old forum arguing that ethically we shouldn’t be spending big money but they’ve since changed their tune based on who we might spend big on).

@redfanman

Simply straw manning at its finest. As i recall the only person calling for us not to sign someone this window was actually you on the grounds that it would be immoral to do so in the depths of the covid epidemic.

Actually what I want to happen in the market this summer would PROBABLY lead to more money coming into the club than leaving therefore helping the club financially. The biggest signing would be Thiago at a bargain £25m not what I would consider big money these days. But what it might require is the owners making the funds available initially to secure the incoming players we want. Some of the outgoings may not happen till towards the end of the window in October or even in January. But we should end up improving our financial position whilst strengthening or at least not weakening the side. If we did nothing fine we will cope but FSG are now restricting us more than I believe necessary. We might lose less than £100m over 2 seasons due to Covid. We are a club improving our finances, running at a profit and paying off large sums off the rolling credit facility which isn’t actually required right now.

[Mascot]

@AnfieldRdDreamer

They’ve got a superhero pushing the train for them but they should be doing what they can to help not sitting back having a doze and accidentally keeping the brake on.

You see, of all the cries of disrespect, that bolded part is the most disrespectful thing I’ve seen on the subject by a long way.

Do the owners, as they invest in stadium expansion, new training facilities, as they push the club to the cutting edge of data and performance analysis, and as they continue to tie the majority of the players to hugely lucrative new deals, And as they continue to close the marketing gap to Utd, strike you as ‘having a doze’?

You can’t demand to be take seriously, and then come out with absolute howlers like that.

[Lowton_Red]

Why does the Echo still refer to him as a “starlet”?

Unfortunately, at 23 it’s fairly certain he’s never going to make it with us. It would be better all round if he could find a permanent move, but if a loan deal is all that is on offer (as looks likely), we should take it.

[AnfieldRdDreamer]

@Mascot

You see, of all the cries of disrespect, that bolded part is the most disrespectful thing I’ve seen on the subject by a long way.

Do the owners, as they invest in stadium expansion, new training facilities, as they push the club to the cutting edge of data and performance analysis, and as they continue to tie the majority of the players to hugely lucrative new deals, And as they continue to close the marketing gap to Utd, strike you as ‘having a doze’?

You can’t demand to be take seriously, and then come out with absolute howlers like that.

Maybe read it again? Did I say they weren’t doing all they can? Or haven’t done all they can up to this point? I said what they needed to be doing now not criticised what they have done in the past or even say that is what they are doing now. But we need to keep reminding them that they can’t rest they have to keep trying. With Klopp they are sitting on a jackpot win. No other manager would have been able to achieve what we have achieved with the level of funding that has been put into transfers. I’m thankful and generally supportive and positive regarding FSG (I’ve been accused of being a plant many times) but their investment ten years ago is worth more than 5 times what they invested now and they are sitting pretty on it. The money will be coming in and in greater amounts than Klopp will need to complete the business needed. It feels like shackles of fear and caution have been placed on the recruitment side right now. If so its missing the big picture, what’s the old saying? Got to spend money to make money? At the moment, if the messages from the club are accurate and not overexaggeration to help negotiating stances, we are trying to make money before we can spend money. That could harm us on the field, if accurate, and would be them resting on their laurels trusting the magnificence of Klopp to get us through. I’m on the side of Klopp and the team needing whatever small resources are required over FSG in that hypothetical.

[rab]

@Walshy07

The problem is no one wants to pay £20m for Wilson. If he does go it will be for £12-15m.
I dont think we will get what we originally wanted for fringe players now.

As you point out, we might have to recalibrate what some of these players are worth or maybe even to keep and use them instead of buying someone new.

It doesn’t mean the owners should pump a load of cash in so we can buy someone new whilst also carrying these guys. The transfer market involves selling as well as buying so if we can’t do one we should expect it to impact the other.

[Kopstar]

Winning the league seems to have killed off hope. Do you remember when we’d sign a few players and then, regardless of whether our first XI still wasn’t the best on paper, we’d naively and optimistically go into the following season thinking, could this be the year? Could we finally do it? Gosh, I think we might you know.

Year after year we’d do it to the extent it became a cliché, “this year it’s our year”. Winning the league seems to have killed that giddy, naive optimism and I’m sad about that.

Why has that happened? Do you remember when we used to have a LB crisis? That went on for DECADES. Do you remember when we went years without signing a DM and we kept berating the club? Do you remember when we lamented the lack of local youngsters coming through? Do you remember when we grew frustrated that the club wasn’t improving on Anfield? Do you remember when we were in debt but still found £20m for Robbie fucking Keane?

I remember. And I remember going into almost every season still with that childish optimism of, “perhaps this could be our year?”.

Well it wasn’t, was it.

Now we’ve got a first XI which is better than everyone else’s. It doesn’t have a single weakness. We’ve solved our LB problem so well we’ve got the best one in the world and his deputy is better than every single left back that starts for our rivals.

That DM we wanted? We’ve got Fabinho. One of the best in the world.

Those local youngsters we hankered after? One’s been the best RB in the world for the last two years and he’s still only 21. His deputy is also a local lad who looks brilliant as well. Jones comes in and casually sticks it in the top corner to win a Merseyside derby.

Anfield? It’s grown bigger and more imposing whilst, importantly, still remaining Anfield. Our training facilities are now world class. Remember the shit pitch we used to have? Now it’s a fucking velvet carpet where we haven’t lost a league game for over three years.

Now we spend world record fees on defenders and goalkeepers and STILL make a fucking profit.

Why then this propensity of fans towards pessimism? That giddy euphoria we’ve been craving for 30 years, it’s here! Enjoy it. This year really was our year.

Hey, what about next year, eh? I really think it could be our year, eh? Look at what we’ve got…I really think we’ve got a chance, you know.

Fuck negative vibes about transfers. I can’t wait to get stuck into the new season and hopefully we’ll turn over a few sides along the way.

It could be our year.

[rab]

@AnfieldRdDreamer

@rab

I haven’t seen one person advocating we don’t spend at all (although there was someone on the old forum arguing that ethically we shouldn’t be spending big money but they’ve since changed their tune based on who we might spend big on).

@redfanman

Simply straw manning at its finest. As i recall the only person calling for us not to sign someone this window was actually you on the grounds that it would be immoral to do so in the depths of the covid epidemic.

Actually what I want to happen in the market this summer would PROBABLY lead to more money coming into the club than leaving therefore helping the club financially. The biggest signing would be Thiago at a bargain £25m not what I would consider big money these days. But what it might require is the owners making the funds available initially to secure the incoming players we want. Some of the outgoings may not happen till towards the end of the window in October or even in January. But we should end up improving our financial position whilst strengthening or at least not weakening the side. If we did nothing fine we will cope but FSG are now restricting us more than I believe necessary. We might lose less than £100m over 2 seasons due to Covid. We are a club improving our finances, running at a profit and paying off large sums off the rolling credit facility which isn’t actually required right now.

Might loose £100m over two years but want the owners to put money in to cover transfers in the hope we can then sell enough to be in profit for the window. You see how these things don’t quite mesh and why the owners would be reluctant to do it.

You’re the first to hail Edwards ability to sell players and the value he can get. So why not trust him to do that before pushing ahead with purchases. Clearly we don’t want to risk more investment until we’ve moved some on. We probably also don’t want to risk carrying unecessary wages for some of these by buying first and then trying to shift them.

Also, from an ethical perspective I don’t think there’s the gap between £25m and £50m you think there is when the club was furloughing people probably on less than £10 an hour.

[CymruRed]

Apart from the loss of matchday revenue’s at the end of last season and this new one,the news of China’s tv deal with the Premiership and not paying this seasons £160mill bill and cancelling there 3 year £500mill+ deal,now tv companies are wanting a rebate of over £500mill+ paid back from CL clubs,it’s totally understandable why we are holding back on spending,who knows whats next around the corner.

Luckily for us our first 11 is sorted and we have decent back up to warrant not putting us into major financial trouble,during these times.

[AnfieldRdDreamer]

If spending £25m allows you to make £35m it’s a helluva lit different than spending £50m!!!

What I would like to see is Thiago and a young promising wide forward (we’ve been linked to that Telles kid for about £18m). They are available now but may not be in October or January when we have sold our outgoings. So we may sell our outgoings but fail to get the incomings Klopp and the recruitment guys wanted. That’s harming our chances of improving and of maintaining our current level. By securing our targets first and then letting those leaving trickle out over the next month and winter window, even if at lower prices, then we get back out investment and probably more. But there is a risk to doing it the other way.

[rab]

@AnfieldRdDreamer

If spending £25m allows you to make £35m it’s a helluva lit different than spending £50m!!!

What I would like to see is Thiago and a young promising wide forward (we’ve been linked to that Telles kid for about £18m). They are available now but may not be in October or January when we have sold our outgoings. So we may sell our outgoings but fail to get the incomings Klopp and the recruitment guys wanted. That’s harming our chances of improving and of maintaining our current level. By securing our targets first and then letting those leaving trickle out over the next month and winter window, even if at lower prices, then we get back out investment and probably more. But there is a risk to doing it the other way.

How does spending £25m make us £35m? How does that make any difference from an ethical standpoint when we were looking to furlough the lowest-earning support staff? And how is spending £54 million across three players anymore ethical than spending £54m on one player?

If we don’t buy those players you want this window, we’ll buy some others at a later date once we’ve sold our surplus players or are more certain about our income.

Those aren’t the only two players in the world. Who knows, maybe someone better will be available next summer and we’ll have more money available to be able to afford them.

There is a risk to buying first and hoping you can sell players on. Same way there’s a risk to selling players first and then securing targets. Reality is, one carries less financial risk than the other and with a potential loss of £100m and being no closer to knowing when stadiums open again, its understandable why the one that carries less financial risk is the route we appear to be pursuing.

The club isn’t only looking at this season, they are thinking long term and being cautious whilst there is a level of uncertainty not previously seen before.

[Iftikhar]

@Sweeting

Solanke at least offered a physical body who could barge into people. Origi similarly is a strong and quick player that defenders hate to see late in a game. Little Rhian, with a slender frame and only decent pace - I’m just not seeing how it’s possible for him to be a success here. £20m would likely fund a move for Thiago and that’s going to be much more beneficial for the team than hoping Brewster makes a miraculous improvement.

That’s a fair and objective assessment of the kid.

May I add, we aren’t selling Brewster to finance Thiago purchase. We are selling Brewster because he’s not a fit for our system and purchasing Thiago because he can improve our squad.

[PaulRoJo]

Brilliant sense of perspective Kopstar!
And you’re right, why shouldn’t this year be our year! I’d love to see us add Thiago and Sancho but so what; regardless why shouldn’t we have hope in our hearts that this season we can win it?
Let’s try not to go straight to that negative ManUtd style attitude of ‘defending the title’ just after 30 extraordinarily long and emotional years. Don’t let it suck out all the joy of being able to believe!

[Mascot]

Just listened to Rob Guttman (who I normally have a lot of time for) on the Anfield Wrap arguing for FSG to borrow £50m To fund signings on the basis that we don’t have to pay it off straight away.

Fuck me.

That’s great, but today Matt Hancock is suggesting we might need to go into national lockdown again and infection rates are rising uncomfortably.

This borrow money to pay for transfers idea is predicated on the idea that football is getting back to normal soon. There is absolutely no guarantee of that, and I think on balance it’s actually unlikely.

[redfanman]

Aswin (Zizouology)

[Nikola]

He’s seventeen years old if I read correctly? That’s some show of faith, I don’t think Liverpool paid that much for a teenager since Ojo if memory serves me right…