Well, let’s keep this simple then.
Do you think it’s easier to convince a good second keeper to join you if your first choice is Alisson Becker or Sam Johnstone?
Generally he concedes 1 goal, it’s about the defence limiting that… we limited Villa to one goal we wouldn’t even be talking about this.
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Besides Reina and Alisson, we’ve probably had the worst bunch of GK’s in PL history from the 80’s onwards:
|GK | Seasons|
|Bruce Grobbelaar| 1981-1994|
|Mike Hooper| 1985-1993|
|David James| 1992-1999|
|Brad Friedel| 1997-2000|
|Sander Westerveld| 1999-2001|
|Pegguy Arphexad| 2000-2003|
|Jerzy Dudek| 2001-2007|
|Chris Kirkland| 2001-2006|
|Patrice Luzi| 2002-2005|
|Paul Jones| 2004-2004|
|Scott Carson| 2005-2008|
|Jose Reina| 2005-2013| 
|Daniele Padelli| 2007-2007|
|Charles Itandje| 2007-2008|
|Diego Cavalieri| 2008-2010|
|Brad Jones| 2010-2014|
|Alexander Doni| 2011-2013|
|Simon Mignolet| 2013-2019|
|Loris Karius| 2016-2020|
|Alisson (Current)| 2018-2020|
|Adrian (Current)| 2019-2020|
Problem with our GK recruitment or just down to some really shit luck?
Sam Johnstone, but I also think it’s much easier to convince a player to come to Liverpool than any other team in the league (never mind a team that is odds on to go back to Championship next season).
Also 90% of the second choice keepers in the league know that they don’t have a chance of starting if the first choice is available (good choice by you to pick one of the exceptions where Button probably has a chance of displacing the first choice 
).
There are many examples where a decent keeper is signing (or staying) in a team where he’d be clear second choice. Gunn and Romero are still in their teams even though they are third choice and will not play even cup games. I don’t agree that Liverpool cannot sign a decent second choice keeper, actually I think it’s much easier for us than any other team. If you’re offered to be second choice at the PL, europian and world champions or second choice behind someone like Fabianski, Pope etc. for a mid/bottom table team, what would you choose?
I don’t expect our second choice to be at Alisson’s level, but I think the drop off in quality should not be that huge.
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I do appreciate the difficulty of bringing in a really decent goalkeeper to play second fiddle. I don’t think it’s impossible but it IS harder to recruit a back up goalkeeper than it is a back up for any outfield position.
Having said that, I do think we have a unique draw right now such that a decent keeper would find it attractive to come and be a part of this club, under this manager, even if he thinks the prospects of displacing Alisson as no.1 are small. I would have gone for Onana but I very much doubt that Ajax would have countenanced a sale so late on in the transfer window. The alternative might be to strengthen the defence to provide better protection during the periods where one or both Gomez and VvD are off their game (as is currently the case). Again hard to get anyone in at the last moment although Tarkowski might have been a possibility.
HOWEVER…a bigger issue for me is the standard of goalkeepers that the club are bringing through the academy. We seem to sign 2 or 3 goalkeepers every year, at least one of whom will have been raved about as being the next big thing…Grabara, Jaros, Ojrzynski, Pitaluga…even going back to the likes of Ryan Fulton. Yet none of them seem to be given a chance.
Who was the last goalkeeper from Liverpool’s academy that went on to be a regular Liverpool first team player? Do we have to go back more than 50 years? The only one I can think of that has gone on to have even a half decent career is Gulacsi. Am I forgetting someone? Why is it that we’re scouring the world for the best young talents, seem to buy at least two young keepers a year, and yet none of them go on to play at a decent level, even for someone else?
I’m really disappointed that the club doesn’t give some of these youngster a chance. As I’ve said previously, I’d much rather Kelleher (or one of the others) was given an opportunity than Adrian, particularly in the League Cup. Had Kelleher had that opportunity against Lincoln and then Arsenal who knows - maybe we’d still be in the League Cup? Maybe he’d have played against Villa…
Sliding doors.
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I still think we overestimate player’s desire to be a first team footballer. Many, many hardworking and good people would rather have the job where they get paid to do very little than the one where they get paid a bit more but are in the firing line everyday.
Many others would also rather be an injury away from the starting job for Liverpool than starting every game for nearly anyone else. “I played for Liverpool” is something you can dine out on for the rest of your life. “I was the starting goalkeeper at Southampton” is a good story to get the grandkids to sleep.
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Sounds like exactly the kind of lad Klopp would want to bring in.
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Was letting Ward go a problem maybe?? As hindsight is a wonderful thing
Just throwing that out there. He’s not exactly racking up the performances for Leicester at the moment either.
Got to admit though I cant think of any other goal keeper with the same injury record as Alisson.
Yes, it is. It’s exactly the kind of player Klopp doesn’t mind bringing into the club. You can’t have a full squad of them, but you also can’t have a squad without them.
Every team in the world needs guys who don’t mind sitting on the bench, they’re absolutely essential squad building assets.
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The irony of your argument is bringing in a back up keeper for Alisson to replace Adrian would be difficult as people wouldnt want to come to be pure back up to Alisson if they can start elsewhere and Klopp wouldnt like their attitude if they were the type to do so… a year after that exact thing happened with Adrian.
Correct me if I’m wrong but Adrian was looking for a club and a free agent. He probably bit Edwards hand off.
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He had offers elsewhere to go as a starting keeper, just not at our level. Which is what a fair few are failing to understand that being a back up here when we are at the top is better than being a starter many other places.
You are over egging the omelette
A back up keeper is just that.
Looking at the amount of games Adrian has gotten through injury,throw in the cup games and add a bumper wage for a 2nd keeper then I speculate whether he does actually play less than other back up keepers.
I understand your point, but a decent keeper might equally decide a two- three year stint here is well and truely worth it.
Games plus wages plus - if young enough- the experience of training with Allison and stopping shots from mo and sadio et al.
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I think it’s harsh including Grobbelaar in that list as most of his career was prior to the Premier League era.
David James and Brad Friedel both went on to be excellent keepers in Premier League teams after their Liverpool exits. Dudek spent 4 years at Madrid, but was behind Casillas so never got a look in only playing 2 league games, although when you have someone like Casillas in front of you your never going to get many opportunities to play.
Brad Jones was ok for us - not terrible, but was only ever 2nd/3rd choice, but was one of those keepers fans never felt entirely comfortable when he played but it was only his last 6 months where he really let any howlers in - prior to that he had always been pretty solid when called apon. Even when he signed, most Aussie and Boro fans said he was a good keeper but never left you feeling 100% confident in him. Strangely he got a lot better after leaving England and his time in Holland he was on of the top keepers in the Dutch league for 3 seasons so did we maybe let him go too early? Was he not a keeper suited to the English game? He also went through a pretty aweful family trgedy during his time with us losing his son Luca to lukemia - that would have surely had a massive effect on him at the time.
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Think the fact that list is as long as it is tells the story
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@Mascot, take Dudek as an example: he was far better than Adrian when he left us, and had just won the CL in 2005. He left us because Reina came in, and accepted to go to Real Madrid as the no 2.
My take is that in our current position, we can attract a far, far better second goalkeeper than Adrian. Quite easily.
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[quote=“Redbj, post:904, topic:51, full:true”]
Looking at the amount of games Adrian has gotten through injury,throw in the cup games and add a bumper wage for a 2nd keeper then I speculate whether he does actually play less than other back up keepers.[/quote]
I’ve already said that the amount of time Alisson has been out injured gives us the opportunity to sell the role to a better second choice.
I doubt when Adrian signed covering Alisson in ten league games a season was part of the offer, but that’s a situation that now becoming a bit of a trend.
Adrian’s contract expires at the end of the season, and I doubt he will be offered an extension.
That’s probably the way we have to think about this. The reserve keeper does one or two years and moves on. But in that case we’re probably looking at a 21-22 year old using it as a spring board to their next move. I’m fine with that, but if we do need to bring that keeper in due to injury or absence, he’ll be making mistakes just like Adrian does.
That’s what I’d like to see and that’s why I question why our reserve keeper can’t be someone we’ve brought through from the academy? I’m not saying Kelleher, per se, but why is it that we buy all these young keepers and yet none of them make it with us? It must be over 50 years since a youth keeper made it with Liverpool and in that time only Gulacsi has gone on to have a semi-decent career elsewhere.
Surely the production line has to be better than that? We ought to be one of the best destinations in world football for the brightest goalkeeping talent. We ought to be able to blood a really good keeper that’s come through the ranks and is in that 20-22 age bracket. If he makes the occasional mistake, that’s far more acceptable in my eyes than seeing mistakes from a much older keeper who’s back-up precisely because he makes the occasional mistake. That’s his level, there’s very little prospect of him getting better at the things he’s been weak at his whole career. On the contrary.
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Uh oh I can see where you’re taking this thread. Been a while since we’ve discussed that person
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On no, are we going to have a pile on on our mate John Achto? If we are, I’d like to see a comparison with other GK coaches, and a fk load of stats to back it - as it always seems unfair on him.
Honestly, I don’t think it’s surprising that there are not many youth keepers making it. For starters, how many of the other clubs have a steady supply of youth keepers coming through? Or in fact, just one decent one? Dean Henderson is the only one that springs to mind as having come through Uniteds ranks, taking some time out on loan, and he’s still behind De Gea? Most PL top 6-8 clubs are buying keepers in. Is it harder to judge how good they will become? Is it that it’s such a unique position, therefore limited numbers, and it’s just harder to get lucky?
I’m in the camp of giving Kelleher, or whoever our youth prospect is, time in cup games, and sacking off the sentiments of the older, more experienced, keepers, esp when Adrian is back up.
On other keepers, both Butland and Foster are kicking around in the lower leagues - both better than Adrian. Wouldn’t mind seeing either come in at this stage, however accept that it;s unlikely this happens.
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