What about when we used to have Xavi and Masch. Masch was a DM
It depends in which phase of the game, when we were in possession, Xabi was still the deepest of the two, because heās much better at it. At first they used to occupy the same zone, almost bumping into each other, because Mascherano was used to do the same in his previous teams.
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Are we talking player positions or player types now?
An enforcer and a passer in midfield was quite common I think.
So a different player profile might be what is needed. Iād love for Grav to play those quick simple passes Masch used to.
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Yeah
Grav turns his guy (that one thing heās world class at, itās as natural to him as Suarezās nutmegs)
Then, instead of galloping forward, make the nearest simple forward pass please
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Ah interesting, thanks. I see what youĀ“re saying.
I see it still as very much a 2 and 1 though with a DM. TheyĀ“re a pair, like Masch and Alonso as Koptician suggested. Gerrard was the AM or 10 like Wirtz. Basically that setup.
For me DM is more a mindset and role rather than only a position. So they would still be next to the CM more or less. Just that the CM is more suited to progressing us up the pitch and more likely to run forward with or without the ball to join attacks, whilst the DM is there to cover usually.
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On a sidenote, what a player Mascherano was.
Small and not quick so youĀ“d think he wouldnĀ“t be a great DM. He had an amazing mentality for it though - he wanted that ball more than anybody else. And yep, he passed quickly, simply and effectively, usually to players who were better on the ball.
Was so unlucky that Barca had Busquets so he didnĀ“t get to play the DM role for them.
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We have to be careful to not over extrapolate what Irola wants to see from his players, but he most definitely does want to see this. If there isnt productive progressive pass available and you have room to run into, then take the space and let them come to you.
As he has said a few times now, we dont want to stop Grav getting forward when the opportunity calls for it, we just need to make sure the rest of the side reads the situation and accommodates it, and Grav needs to protect the ball better, with both decision making and quality of the final ball, once he steps into those advanced positions.
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Isnāt that the problem? Grav isnāt the most cerebral of footballers in a position where a sharp mind is king.
Slot told him to sit in for the 20 winning season so he did. Slot allowed/encouraged him to run more the next season so he did, without picking spots where it would be safe to go. He ran forward many times when he shouldnāt have last season.
And then we blame Macca for not being able to stop three opposition players running at him. How many times did we see snapshots of our āmidfieldā with a big gaping hole right in the middle?
Yes. I think he tends to run forward and it looks nice but once he gets forward heĀ“s like āerr??ā and he often doesnĀ“t have the composure or quality to then do something productive.
Though I do agree that if the opposing teams gives you space to progress with the ball, walk or run into it. Too many midfielders play like itĀ“s netball and you canĀ“t move when you have the ball.
There is no room in a side like this for a player that this description legitimately applies to. If this is true about Grav then the only path forward is to drop him, replace him ASAP and then sell him, because it undercuts the entire philosophy of the game for Iraola to have to pigeon hole one player like that.
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Typical BarƧa take a player they didnāt need in the sense that in the Busquetās era they didnāt need an enforcer. Which left Mascherano with a CB role.
DM really is positional itās someone who sits Infront of the defence. A defensively minded midfielder is not imo that. Mascherano for me was an enforcer in midfield.
We have Macca who does a bit of that and can break the lines with his passing.
We have Nyoni who looks very good positionally for his age can carry he ball and a good passing range.
Grav with the right setup is good at intercepting and if he keeps it simple could find Wirtz, Szoboszlai or Macca when he escapes from the opposition press.
I donāt know which way Iraola will take but imo we have what we need. Itās just about getting the system and balance right.
I think most would agree finding a KantĆ© would be the icing on the cake, I liked Camavinga, no idea what heās doing now but someone like that would be nice. Still we can do worst than what we already have. Gravenberch worries me most as imo he needs to change a lot and needs the team to do certain things to be effective.
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To me both Gravenberch and Szoboszlai run into the space and the opposition rarely if ever come to them. They wait as they donāt see this progression from them dangerous. Neither Gravenberch or Szoboszlai find the pass that hurts. The opposition is happy to sit back watch and wait.
Gravenberch often misses the obvious early pass. What Iād like to see more is both Gravenberch and Szoboszlai play the early pass and run into the space. This creates a different proposition to the defence.
For me tactically the opposition are prepared for what these 2 do. So what Iām doing is calling for variation which can be coached.
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Neither look around enough when they run forward. The head on a swivel. Stevie used to constantly look while he was on the move with the ball.
We need to move this discussion to the midfield threadā¦but then again we were discussing Camara as a midfield addition/replacement so it kinda belongs here as well.
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Thatās what I think which is why Iām confused with why some on here see Macca as the one to loose.
Stevie was a magician. 
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Macca is actually the one to keep. What we saw with Macca having to cover 2-3 players and inevitably failing last season was the symptom. Not the cause.
The issue isā¦Iām not entirely sure Macca wants to stay. Szobo and Grav may have looked at their situation and thought āthis is a good deal for me, thisā and signed the new contracts.
Macca may be tired of carrying the can for the headless runners and decide āI can do better than this lotā
Iām not a big fan of any of them however you have to make the most of what you have. I never understood why we went for Macca however thatās what we did.
Itās up to the coaches and manager to get the balance and set up right. Get what we have firing.
Iām not knowledgeable enough to suggest replacements and as it is thereās greater priorities I think as none of our midfielders are bad as such.
For me if Gravenberch doesnāt show some vision heās the obvious one to go.
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Think Macca because of the cheap transfer clause. Grav was also a good deal and Szobo was an 8 that was sought after.
If you remember, Jurgen wasnāt that into using Grav. He would have ripped them a new on had Szobo and Grav vacated the midfield the number of times they did last season.
For the right price Iād move all three of them but Macca would be the last for me.
We went for him because he is one of the best, most complete midfielders in the world and has demonstrated that for us for 2 of his 3 years here, and only didnāt do that during a season when we were a tactical mess.
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