Macca?
Whatever all I can say is he’s one player that can cover all 3 midfield positions in this 4231. Which to me makes him very valuable to us atm.
1 Like
Just none of them very well.
2 Likes
We’ll see 
.
Gravenberch being the scapegoat for Macca’s lack of athleticism and Szobo’s refusal to cover really is a talking point.
And, how can carrying out the coaches instruction demonstrate a lack of intelligence?
Playing in a 3 meant the strengths of all three offset their weaknesses
Grav - 1st phase progression
Macca - Connecting midfield and attack
Szobo - Off ball movement/Shooting
Macca and Grav have the on ball skillsets of number 10’s but are reasonably disciplined socan play in a pivot with a progressive passer partner who is happy to stay behind the ball.
Szobo has the skillset of a wide player, which is why he never played in midfield for Salzberg or Leipzig.
3 Likes
I think we should give Iraola a chance to sort this squad out before we start writing our lists of who to sell. A lot went wrong under Slot - and I’m not saying all of it was his fault - but there is a huge mess to clean up. Tactical overhaul, mentality overhaul, fitness overhaul.
To me this is a free hit of a season for Iraola. He’s basically starting from scratch. Figure out what works and who can help us in the next 2-5 years.
I can’t take anything that happened last year on face value. The entire club fell apart.
19 Likes
Thanks for saying that. More or less where I am. I’m finding the choices of Iraola very interesting so far.
I’m also trying very hard to give all our lads a clean slate. Unfortunately I get dragged into player discussions that are based on past impressions.
I definitely think it is going to take Iraola and his team to sort out the mess a long time. I hope I can remain patient.
4 Likes
Wow, so many posts about existing LFC players in the midfield position in the rumour thread. Don’t we already have a thread for that? 
5 Likes
I very much agree with this. Let’s see how Iraola shapes it. There’s a lot to do in all the ways you mention.
I would just want to not fully say it’s a free hit, as we are Liverpool, and even as we adjust to a new manager and his demands, there is a sense that the show must go on.
So for me I want to see improvement as we go, and given the talent we have, it’s not unreasonable to expect us to finish in the CL spots. A trophy, or a deep run in the CL this season would be welcome, but basically I want to be feeling like we are poised to challenge hard for the title next season, after watching progress being made this term.
Edit
If we exceed that, and find ourselves in a title fight this season, I’ll take it!
Macca wasn’t just always ran at by 2 to 3 players, he was also easily beaten by a player with pace as it was easy to push and run past him as he lacks recovery pace.
This was also exasperated by Slots defensive style and plus one, as the defenders were now deeper, rather than helping by pressing, they were more reactive than proactive and that caused the space for players to ghost past Macca.
Macca in a tight press and a low block can be an effective defensive player as he does like to win the ball, that is why he looks less of an issue with Argentina, because they sit deeper in a low/mid block when defending or are all out high press when chasing a game.
Where he struggles is in transition and big spaces 1 v 1 and that will happen under Iraola until we get everyone on the same page and his lack of recovery pace will always be an issue even then.
He isn’t the only one struggling 1 v 1, but that is more to over committing from the likes of Dom, Grav is pretty good when in position.
Getting hack to Camara, his stats suggest that he is not just a ball winner but a player who can then get on the ball and play forward.
He is an alround CM who has a bit of everything and hopefully the mentality to be able to defend the space in midfield, not seen enough of him to understand his game intelligence, but he has the tools.
3 Likes
Great.
Now where does Wirtz play?
Left wing?
Then why did we get Barcola?
Is it though? For example I´d say Fabinho and Mascherano were both DMs but Fabinho sat and Masch was a bit more roaming around.
And realistically when you´re defending you´re always going to be staggered to some degree.
That´s what people say on Grav. He intercepts. But is that it? He can turn forward as well. Is that really enough?
A Kante could be great but so could a more calm sitting player like Fabinho or Busquets or whatever. Really it depends who we pair them with.
Iraola essentially uses a 4-4-2, so Wirtz is the second striker.
Barcola is a left winger with both quality and pace which is a necessity in an Iraola team.
Iraola will probably persist with Szobo centrally, and he’s much more astute than I am. There is going to have to be a shift in the way Dom plays or changes to the requirements of the role, however. I also wouldn’t be surprise if he was used to plug holes in at RB, RMF, and SS.
1 Like
But of course you can throw them in the deep end. In 2023, we threw Quansah in the deep-end and he played a lot because we needed it. His previous experience was League 1. Nat Philips did it as well. Thrown in, helped us to top 4.
What has to be considered is physical readiness. The thing is that with the young CBs that we have brought in… many are like Quansah on the cusp of being ready to step up.
Some are going to fail, but I believe in the amount and level of talent we have acquired… that a high percentage of them are good enough to take minutes as a 4th choice.
Maybe not one individual standout per say… but as a collective. It is an issue that needs to be addressed but from my point of view, this is much more easily managed than other positions where we have less talent.
Exactly, we had to throw him in because of injuries. But, in the first half of that season he’s getting odd minutes here and there for the most part plus Europa and League Cup games. He amassed less than 180 minutes at CB in the league before Xmas. And we also had prime van Dijk, Gomez, Matip and Konate in the squad.
Ndukwe has even less experience than Quansah did, less of a senior supporting cast around him and people think we just throw him in as fourth choice. One injury and he’s your only CB cover.
My point is not that young players shouldn’t be given a chance. They need experience but in a managed way. Like Ngumoha and Nyoni are getting. Like Quansah got.
But no one on here has possibly seen enough of Ndukwe to suggest he’s capable of being dropped into the first team squad as one of four CB options because he simply hasn’t played enough to make that call.
Lost count of the kids we’ve had, got excited by, projected as the next big thing and then watched then fall by the wayside. It would be irresponsible to put that pressure on him before he’s ready.
2 Likes
You’re wrong, we are clearly in the midfield thread.
1 Like
A regular at a 6th-ranked Bundesliga team is still a stronger resume than Jacquet and Leoni before their arrival by a country mile.
The problem is that our ex SD committed a 6 years contract with a big weekly salary with Gravenberch in Jan 2026.
Even if we want to shift him on for a reasonable transfer fee, his weekly wages of 280K GBP per week makes it near impossible for another other clubs to match bar for the top 6 of the PL, the 2 spanish giants and PSG. Coupled with his very limited passing range and vision, it simply doesn’t represent value for money.
2 Likes
However both were recognised as immense talents, that have cost less than Quansah, I would love him to come back and suceed but he made his decision.
What is it with you and buying English players, thats all you seem to quote, myopic or what!
I doubt he would have made the same decision under Klopp though. Slot made it very clear to him that he was not wanted.
3 Likes