‘chairman corbyn’
you & kopstar are conservatives
Just pointing out that unsurprisingly that bots that smeared Corbyn, and promoted Brexit have turned their attention on Starmer. Bots amplify opinions that already exist, helping make views held by minority more convincing to majority. For example 11% of content for StarmerOut hashtag is created by just 10 accounts.
Take accounts like White Rabbit
https://twitter.com/1_Albus_Lepus
Nearly 80,000 posts (mostly memes) since joining 18 months ago. These can be summed up in four phases:
Anti-BBC campaign (from the left)
Antisemitism campaign (dismissing it)
Anti-EU campaign
Anti-Starmer campaign
If I wanted to make a disinformation campaign, and damage my opponent (be it Starmer or Corbyn) he is exactly the type of twitter account I would create. Posting around the clock 50-100 #StarmerOut memes a day. Thats not a normal person. Thats a full time employee creating meme after meme as a job.
Given the fucking state of the UK/Government, anyone that does not want Starmer to be successful is nuts in my book. Why would anyone jeopardise it when the positive momentum and progress this year. Whats the end game of #StarmerOut ? Its like Everton fans last year complaining about Ancelotti, as if there is a better alternative for them. I cant think of one credible alternative in the Labour party who would appease the left of the party.
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It’s a noble sentiment, and there is nothing I’d like more than a socialist government to get a proper crack in the UK, but realistically it isn’t going to happen.
The priority at this point has to be getting the Tories out. Fucks sake, I’d vote for Blair at this point and he was the reason I left the party and voted green for two election cycles.
Ah those heady days when you could protest vote safe in the knowledge that the Tories weren’t getting in…
Keir Starmer is not Corbyn, but neither is he a Tory. That’s just childish. He won’t usher in the glorious people’s revolution, but neither will he privatise their NHS. He is certainly rooted on the left of the political spectrum, even if that’s not a far left as you or I would prefer.
To be left wing and not vote for him is a self-destructive act of petulance. That StarmerOut hashtag is one of the most utterly brainless acts of wilful ignorance I’ve seen. I’m just happy so much of the traffic was people taking the piss.
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Not really, I just don’t vote for people whom I consider to be dangerous hardcore lefty socialists. Or anybody endorsed by Tony Blair.
I believe in hard work, endeavour and striving for the best for my family. That’s why I like America and Americans. They’ll congratulate the person who’s just bought the new Tesla or bigger boat rather than criticising their achievement. I’m not a Conservative, their views just more closely match my own.
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There seems to be a departure here between your beliefs and those that currently sit in Westminster as our government.
One large problem we have in this country (and increasingly in the US I believe) is working hard doesn’t necessarily translate into success. It simply doesn’t. You need some support somewhere along the line. Even entrepreneurs do to a certain degree.
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Ah 
how many of us still dream that to happen in their respective countries.
I think the problem is FPTP. Any votes outside the big two is not only wasted but can be even disastrous. So it’s mostly about choosing the lesser evil.
I think Keir Starmer has to reach out across the left spectrum. Not just to factions within Labor but also to myriad of parties across UK. Not just for an election alliance/strategy but for an united, viable and permanent platform. Yes it will be terribly frustrating and exhausting. There will be elements of the left who will either try to piggyback a ride or simply try to shoot down the project just to preserve their purity.
But the fact is there isn’t any other alternative. While the left, actually it’s the centrist and left, votes are fractured the rightwing votes are more or less concentrated with the Conservatives.
This is purely my opinion, someone who is a casual observer of UK politics from thousands of miles away.
Certainly. Working hard for somebody else tends to make them rich. As for this government, I dislike them less than any of the alternatives by quite a large margin. Like I’d rather chop a finger off my left hand than rigjt.
I noticed he spelt conservatives with a little “c”, otherwise I would have objected as well 
I probably am a conservative but I wouldn’t class myself as a Conservative (although I have voted for them roughly 50% of the time).
No party truly represents my political views and I’m not “rooted” to any particular group. I vote for the party that comes closest to matching the political objectives I consider most important at any particular time. Most important to me, my family and the country but not in that order.
Starmer certainly isn’t Tory-lite unless that is true of anyone just to the right of socialism. What he is though is politically astute, extremely intelligent, polished and with a track record on terrorism that the tories would die for, and a record on human rights that the Centre-lefts can applaud.
I’m very surprised he’s being undermined by the unions, what short memories they must have.
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The unions make United fans seem harmonised and fully supportive of the direction and management of the organisation.
People’s liberation front of Labour…
I’ve tried asking this on the old forum, when Starmer was elected, but didn’t really get an answer there: What exactly are the main policy problems ‘the left’ has with Starmer? Genuinely interested.
All I can say is that I was fairly impressed by him during the Brexit debates, haven’t really looked at other stuff so far.
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I don’t think it’s a policy issue - it’s too early into his tenure to pin him down on any policies he will take to the country. Although he’ll end up a bit to the left of Blairism and a bit to the right of Corbynism. Basically he’s a pragmatist who’ll try to lead and govern from the centre left. He’s also seen to be part of the Labour Parliamentary scene who undermined Corbyn and made him unelectable. I think for a lot of the hard left it basically comes down to you fucked over our boy, so we’re going to fuck over yours. I can see the temptation to go down that route, but you have to look and the bigger picture and just bloody grow up.
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A far left Labour party is not going to win an election. A more central view is what the country needs. The current Tory party is so far right it is slowly destroying the country but a far left government would probably be just as bad.
I understand this point of view but have to politely disagree.
The big cigarette companies used to put out propaganda that giving up cigarettes was/is extraordinarily difficult - they promoted this idea as it kept people hooked on their product. As we all know - smoking causes pain and suffering in many ways Giving it up is relatively not that difficult.
The political parties use this same tactic - No vote is a wasted vote. Buy our “product” or it will cause you and the people around you so many problems. You are better off if you keep smoking - I mean voting. How much pain and suffering has been caused by these jokers? and yet we keep listening, we keep hoping that this time it will be different. When is it ever different? When were your interests put before theirs? 1946 maybe?
If you do not believe in the system - then why should you be an active participant? I struggle to think of one politician in my lifetime that I would wholeheartedly trust - maybe Tony Benn - he would be about the closest. The rest of them I wouldn’t give a Rats Arse for.
Look at the choice Americans have - from 350 million people its down to those two. Really? Really?
There are alternative systems that provide equity and accountability - the alternative to the Westminster system is not just Adolf or a Banana Republic.
Vote None of the Above if you can or spoil your vote - they are counted and they do matter. You can give this addiction up and replace it with something that provides for your well being not theirs.
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While FPTP certainly seems to be an issue I can confirm that voting for the “Big 2” is not always the case.
In my little corner a vote for Labour is effectively a vote for the Conservatives.
Can you give us your secret?
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Not really, I just don’t vote for people whom I consider to be dangerous hardcore lefty socialists.
that’s a conservative
that you find america’s veneration of greed inspiring is pretty disturbing
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It’s a noble sentiment, and there is nothing I’d like more than a socialist government to get a proper crack in the UK, but realistically it isn’t going to happen.
that’s the entire point
the ruling class and their media weren’t going to let somebody like corbyn into power, and were willing to paint him as a new hitler to make sure
sort of like how the democratic party prefers trump to sanders
the liberals know their role in this. i’m done voting for them
A handy guide to the government’s three new lockdown tiers:
VERY HIGH RISK (major restrictions):
The North
HIGH RISK (some restrictions):
Parts of the South without a Tory MP
MEDIUM RISK (carry on as before):
Parts of the South with a Tory MP
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Hopefully I’m in the 1/3rd 
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Who will you be voting for then?
Incidentally, I agree that it’s hard to win an election if your politics stray too far from the middle. After all, as soon as that happens with the two major political parties in the UK a new one is formed to fill the space vacated (the Lib Dems) and the two larger parties are forced back towards the centre for fear of losing votes to the LibDems.
This will just continue over cycles, imo. Meaning that politics is either boring for it’s lack of difference between the main parties or too interesting because of it.
I agree that it’s difficult for a truly socialist party to win an election in the UK but not because of the media or FPTP but because it simply doesn’t generate enough support, ideologically. That’s going to be truer the more our aging population grows.
I do think it will stand more of a chance with the UK outside of the EU though, something which Corbyn and McDonnell would probably agree. Certainly I believe that leaving the EU will ultimately shift UK politics to the left (if not fully).
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