UK Politics Thread (Part 1)

Modern farming is a nasty business - another reason why I have little empathy for farmers - most of their practices are inhumane and border on cruelty. They practice them as routine.

We all know about the disgusting treatment of chickens - here is another one to ponder -

A cows udder in its natural state should be about the size of two fists. Breeding and the practice of perpetual pregnancy has resulted in the grotesque and deformed udders now considered the norm. A cows udders were not designed to hang so low that they scrape along in cow shit. This then leads to all manner of infections such as mastitis. Hence the need for constant antibiotics - which we then consume.

Guardians of the countryside? Pigs Arse.

Enjoy your Latte.

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I shall have oat milk in mine thanks.

Yeah, I look at cows and they look completely unnatural now.
Part of me would like to think that many UK farms are little above many of the barbaric practices you mention. Especially the smaller ones where theyā€™ve looked at different ways to increase their profits. This includes special breeds and of course improved animal welfare.

This was one concern with the UK / Australia trade deal. Basically opening the UK market to produce from the Australian mega farms which havenā€™t had to follow certain animal welfare standards or even the use of growth hormone etc.

I wonder if the UK will maintain those standards that were introduced as part of being a member of the EU? Sadly I suspect that our hand might be forced by market pressures and Johnsonā€™s inability / willingness to think further than his belly. I hope Iā€™m wrong.

J Jonah Jameson Laughing GIF

But ones that never produce anything and just exist on subsidies?

Governmentā€™s first priority is protecting the populace. Absolutely farming (food production) should be protected any way possible.

I honestly need help on this and it ties in well with @Livvyā€™s post above

Here we have the bloke that negotiated the withdrawal agreement, now thinks itā€™s crap and wants to renegotiate it. And to my eyeā€™s, that I admit I havenā€™t paid enough attention to appears to be bluffing with a hand that consists of a pair of 2ā€™s.

Can someone please explain how many legs Lord Frost has to stand on in this?

Are there farms like this? I donā€™t know of any? Even Clarkson did something for his Ā£144 profit.

In his own words - He did a thing

Well, I donā€™t know what the answer is. I strongly believe that CAP is bonkers - or rather subsidising farmers to do nothing is bonkers. Itā€™s absolutely rife for abuse. However I also believe that we need to protect our farming capacity, because we might find we need it.

I donā€™t know how to resolve that.

Just as a side note, I find it interesting that many people believe Benefit Claimants are the devil incarnate, but are happy enough to see wealthy landowner taking much more out of the public pocket.

There seems to be a general attitude that rich people on the take are smart, canny, playing the system etc. but poor people on the take are scum.

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worse than the feudal system?..

everything is impossible, until its not.

Heā€™s also managed to piss off the legal profession today by suggesting itā€™s lawyers fault that rape prosecution take ages to get to court.

Heā€™s a fucking blunderbuss. He just opens his mouth and says whatever Iā€™ll informed drivel comes tumbling out.

It beggars belief that people would vote for him because they find Starmer ā€˜vanillaā€™.

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My wife drinks oat milk. I tried it in my coffee once and it was alright. All I then needed to do was add milk.

Tbf, thatā€™s after less than a week with no notice. Itā€™s bound to pick up.

Plenty. If accurate he can legitimately play the threat to the Union card.

Has he? Do you have a link?

gun suiting up GIF

He and his government are out of control at the moment.

Heā€™s called the Insulate Britain crowd as ā€œcrustiesā€. Now I donā€™t think those people are helping their cause by doing what they are doing but Johnson needs to be above this.

His crowd are also now starting to blame businesses for not being ready for the shortages that they said wouldnā€™t happen.

Itā€™s on the Guardianā€™s tracker

Apparently said on BBC breakfast this morning.

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:laughing: I love the stuff. Iā€™m glad I found it when I tried to stop eating animal products. I can make a pretty mean Turmeric Latte with it.

127 in a week. By that rate weā€™ll have 1300-1400 by Christmas. Thatā€™s a big dent in the 40,000 downturn since leaving the EU. But I do hope youā€™re right.

Can you expand please? I mean if the EU chooses to impose tariffs according with the the Withdrawal Agreement that is exactly what Frost negotiated and signed isnā€™t it?

The threat to the Union is one of the few legitimate justifications the UK has to trigger Article 16 of the NIP. Ie, to claim that the Protocol should, at least temporarily, no longer apply.

So should he then admit that he screwed up by deriving this deal in the first place? Surely he should have understood this.

Is there a viable alternative that maintains the border between the UK, EU and Ireland?

I think heā€™ll use it as proof that itā€™s not working as intended.

There are two ready made alternatives.

Mayā€™s deal or NI (or UK as a whole) being part of Efta/EEA.

I guess thatā€™s 3 alternatives.

Correct me if Iā€™m wrong, but isnā€™t the whole point about not wanting to be in the EFTA/EEA since that requires accepting freedom of movement?

The Efta version, which is closer to the original intention (pre Maastricht) of applying to workers not citizens. But there are also slightly greater controls available to Efta members.

NI could possibly mimic Liechtenstein in that regard. That option would almost certainly not be available to the UK as a whole though.

Also, with the CTA and no physical land border, NI already accepts a certain degree of freedom of movement with Ireland, although they are both, of course, outside of Schengen.

https://www.efta.int/eea/policy-areas/persons/persons

Doesnā€™t seem to say so here, where it speaks solely about nationality as the qualifying criterion. Would you be able to shed more light or point me in a direction where I can find out more about the differences?

EDIT: This page (Free movement - EU nationals - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission) doesnā€™t seem to show any differences either?

It gets really technical, particularly when considering the judgments of the Efta Court on these issues. Itā€™s true that over the last few years it has been slowly moving towards an equivalence with FoM under EU law but itā€™s not there yet and there may well be some pushback in the near future.

Iā€™ve been into it before on TIA and, unfortunately, with no access to those posts it would take me a while to set it all out again.

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