UK Politics Thread (Part 1)

[redfanman]

No it isnt.

[Kopstar]

She lost her audience when she made the point about Keir Starmer being a lawyer Went downhill after that. Twats.

[Hope.in.your.heart]

@Mascot

I’m personally troubled that the shape the debate has gone in, underscored by the ECHR report, suggests that we have drifted to a place where criticism of Israel is now considered to be Anti-Semitic. This is an absurd situation to find ourselves in.

Yup, that’s something which bothers me too. It shows a real low level of thinking, or either, a high level of hypocrisy, to state that criticism of actions undertaken by the state of Israel is equal to antisemitism. It’s exactly where cunts like Netanyahou and others of his ilk want us to go to. Very poor form overall.

[Iftikhar]

I don’t want to be in a controversy that doesn’t concern me and I know almost nothing about. But the notion and the text certainly disturbs me.

Given the fact that I’m form a country where any criticism of the regime on social media is harshly dealt with, I’m naturally disturbed by such snooping.

[Arminius]

@Mascot

In some cases I’m sure people’s support for Palestine has crossed a line into antisemitism, but we have to be very clear that nation states are not religions, and the right to criticise a nation states must always be protected. It really feels like, in the case of Israel a very good job has been done of making criticism of the Jewish state and criticism of Jewish People interchangeable.

There can be no question about that, and the current Israeli government merits a good deal of criticism. But the damage done to UK Labour was incalculable when you had spontaneous chanting of a call for the destruction of Israel, the same chant used by an organization that calls for the extermination of Jews. The fact that no one in the Labour leadership, at least in attendance at those incidents, had the sense to realize how far behind they had left ‘criticism of Israel’s actions’ far behind in the rearview mirror. Fairly easy to make it interchangeable once your opponents have gone that far.

[Arminius]

@Mascot

Corbyn definitely doesn’t get a free pass from me for not doing the obvious and sensible thing and just keeping his fucking mouth shut.

He does seem to be a bit of a blunt instrument kind of guy. This Anglo-American tendency of late to keep running against the last leader (Clinton/Corbyn) is an odd development, but all he really needed to do was make a measured and qualified statement of regret - he has already moved on in every meaningful way, all he is doing is preventing the Labour Party from doing so as well, as you note in your Item 1.

[Noo_Noo]

Symbolic of that section of the Labour Party not letting go?

[ISMF]

Corbyn refused to retract his comments.

That’s the key thing. When given the opportunity he took a stand that it has been exaggerated and used for political gain.

That undermines any reform that Starmer is trying to perform. It also highlights the problem the labour party had.

Totally tone deaf.

[redfanman]

It doesn’t ask anyone to snoop.

If you are receiving that email it is likely that when you go on social media you will come across messages from labour supporting accounts without having to look for them.

[Mascot]

@Arminius

There can be no question about that, and the current Israeli government merits a good deal of criticism. But the damage done to UK Labour was incalculable when you had spontaneous chanting of a call for the destruction of Israel, the same chant used by an organization that calls for the extermination of Jews. The fact that no one in the Labour leadership, at least in attendance at those incidents, had the sense to realize how far behind they had left ‘criticism of Israel’s actions’ far behind in the rearview mirror. Fairly easy to make it interchangeable once your opponents have gone that far.

I’m not sure the chant universally means that, but you’re right that it’s territory that the Labour Party ought not to be wading into. The watchword with the antisemitism scandal seems to be not what is, but what it looks like that’s important.

[Mascot]

@ISMF

Corbyn refused to retract his comments.

That’s the key thing. When given the opportunity he took a stand that it has been exaggerated and used for political gain.

That undermines any reform that Starmer is trying to perform. It also highlights the problem the labour party had.

Totally tone deaf.

The more I’ve thought about it, I’ve changed my mind on this and I don’t think Keir Starmer had much choice other than to suspend him.

He should have kept his trap shut.

[Klopptimist]

I hope that out of this, a party arrises that can be a credible (and votable) opposition. Good mate of mine who’s a staunch Labour member just cancelled his membership. Wonder what will emerge? New party? Some kind of phoenix? Time will tell but the damage this will cause, if not permanent, will be extremely long lasting.

[Mascot]

@Arminius

He does seem to be a bit of a blunt instrument kind of guy. This Anglo-American tendency of late to keep running against the last leader (Clinton/Corbyn) is an odd development, but all he really needed to do was make a measured and qualified statement of regret - he has already moved on in every meaningful way, all he is doing is preventing the Labour Party from doing so as well, as you note in your Item 1.

I actually think Corbyn’s role in this is to fall on his sword. It must hurt like fuck for someone who has spent his political career fighting intolerance to be branded a racist, but there are bigger issues at stake. He can rail against the unfairness all he likes, but a huge swathe of the country including Labour voters think he’s racist.

The Tory Government is in the process of causing untold damage to the country. Children are starving and we’re going to end up with fucking workhouses again if it continues. It isn’t fair, and it isn’t nice, but the problems run a lot deeper than Jeremy Corbyn’s feelings. We need the Labour Party in power at the next election.

[ISMF]

I agree Starmer had no choice at all (the same with the legal settlements).

What I am not certain of though is Corbyns motives. A part of me suspects he intended this outcome with his comments. He must have known the repercussions.

I wonder if he will form a new party, fight a legal challenge or perhaps he sees it as good for the party.

[redfanman]

The latter. The goal is probably to split the party until Starmer is weak enough to be challenged by someone they deem acceptable.

[redfanman]

James Felton (JimMFelton)

[Mascot]

@Klopptimist

I hope that out of this, a party arrises that can be a credible (and votable) opposition. Good mate of mine who’s a staunch Labour member just cancelled his membership. Wonder what will emerge? New party? Some kind of phoenix? Time will tell but the damage this will cause, if not permanent, will be extremely long lasting.

If what comes out of this is another left wing party (a momentum style split from Labour) then the Tories get a two to three decade run in government to carve up the country however they see fit.

It is literally the most fucking stupid thing left wing of the Labour Party could do.

[Arminius]

@Mascot

I’m not sure the chant universally means that, but you’re right that it’s territory that the Labour Party ought not to be wading into. The watchword with the antisemitism scandal seems to be not what is, but what it looks like that’s important.

Genuinely don’t know what other possible interpretation there can be - sure as hell is not a robust call for a two-state solution, and the Hezbollah version has a next line that makes it doubly clear.

[Arminius]

@Mascot

The more I’ve thought about it, I’ve changed my mind on this and I don’t think Keir Starmer had much choice other than to suspend him.

He should have kept his trap shut.

I don’t know what the timing of the suspension versus Corbyn’s refusal to retract, but if it came after, I think there was no real choice. If it came before, a more diplomatic resolution would have been better.

[Magnus]

Edited to I should not get involved just because I am provoked.