UK Politics Thread (Part 1)

[Kopstar]

Report is here
2022-05-25_FINAL_FINDINGS_OF_SECOND_PERMANENT_SECRETARY_INTO_ALLEGED_GATHERINGS.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

[Bekloppt]

Glad to be of assistance

[aussielad]

@Iftikhar

Unless someone is harboring an ambition to become Prime Minister.

Not at this point.

Cos of Living crisis, struggling with dealing with the fallout of Covid, Energy prices set to go up again in 3-4 months. No sane person would oust BoJo just yet. They will wait till the shit has passed and things look like they are about to get better then stab him in the back.

[aussielad]

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/15/1099008586/mass-shootings-us-2022-tally-number?t=1653476681272

198 mass shootings and we are only 19 weeks into the years.

So USA averages 10 mass shootings per week. Only 7 days in a week, so they are having more than 1 each day,

[Bekloppt]

Good post, but maybe more of a US politics topic?

[aussielad]

Ooops, thought it was - my bad

@moderators Mods, can my previous post get moved to the US Politics thread please?

[Klopptimist]

I know I post a lot of YM clips but this (and the follow up one) whilst not entirely the same are scarily similar. Pretty much every event is this program happened in real life, all came from a Westminster mole.

Getting Drunk at The Official Meeting | Yes Minister | BBC Comedy Greats

[Kopstar]

I’ve read the Sue Gray report now. Have to say, it’s pretty thin given the number of events that were being looked at.

I would also say that Johnson will survive this. It could have been much worse for him and I don’t think we’ll be seeing 54 letters go in.

Simon Case is also likely to survive. The main instigators appear to be No.10 officials and senior civil servants who have since left. Case comes over as a bit of a workaholic and someone who plays things by the book.

The culture within Downing Street and Whitehall definitely needs to change though; starting with the prevalence of alcohol in and around the office. Something that goes back decades.

[rupzzz]

@Kopstar

it’s pretty thin

Why aren’t I surprised by this?

[aussielad]

Would H&SE potentially be able to take their shot at it?

I’m thinking along the lines that in most emplyment contracts, it is gross misconduct to be drinking/under the influence of alcohol at work. So either they are breaking the law by drinking at work, or they are not at work, and it is therefore a social gathering which was also against the law at the time.

[Kopstar]

The difficulty is extrapolating who received police fines for these events. Case wasn’t fined which, having read Gray’s report, I’m not surprised about. Many others have been though and given some of the behaviour referenced in the report sounds entirely justified.

I very much doubt there will be any further action now (other than implementing changes to address the cultural failings).

[Kopstar]

@Kopstar

I’m not as cut and dried on the whole lying to Parliament thing. I think he can reasonably argue that he said what he understood to be true at the time.

PM says he did not mislead MPs

Chris Mason

Political editor

The prime minister is going out of his way here to emphasise that he did not knowingly mislead the House of Commons.

Being proven to have done so could cost him his job – so explaining why he believes he did not is crucial.

What he had said to MPs before was “what I believed to be true” he said.

Posted at 12:5512:55
I would like to correct the record, says PM
Having said that his “brief” attendance at some of the gatherings was not found to be outside the rules, but after he left or at gatherings he did not attend, the rules were breached.

He says “I would like to take this opportunity to correct the record”, adding that he does not want to “absolve myself of responsibity” but “simply to explain why I spoke as I did in this house”.

[JU97ICE]

@Klopptimist

And we were worried it would be a whitewash……

Having watched the dodgy business with the Met Police, Sue Gray, given her history, is someone I could trust to tell the truth of the matters on this without Tory influence. So I’m not surprised it wasn’t a whitewash.

I haven’t followed the news on this at all today? Is the report available in full to the public? To MPs? Or just Boris?

[Kopstar]

[Mascot]

@Klopptimist

I’ve posted my experiences of guns in the USA before, scary stuff. Will never change, NRA is too strong. They’ll never agree to any further restrictions, thin end of the wedge and all that.

The NRA needs to be redefined as a terrorist group. Won’t happen any time soon, but there will surely come a tipping point where too many people have been touched by tragedy.

[Mascot]

@Kopstar

@Kopstar

I’m not as cut and dried on the whole lying to Parliament thing. I think he can reasonably argue that he said what he understood to be true at the time.

PM says he did not mislead MPs

Chris Mason

Political editor

The prime minister is going out of his way here to emphasise that he did not knowingly mislead the House of Commons.

Being proven to have done so could cost him his job – so explaining why he believes he did not is crucial.

What he had said to MPs before was “what I believed to be true” he said.

Posted at 12:5512:55
I would like to correct the record, says PM
Having said that his “brief” attendance at some of the gatherings was not found to be outside the rules, but after he left or at gatherings he did not attend, the rules were breached.

He says “I would like to take this opportunity to correct the record”, adding that he does not want to “absolve myself of responsibity” but “simply to explain why I spoke as I did in this house”.

So when he claimed there wasn’t a party that it later transpired he was at, he wasn’t intending to mislead.

The only possible solution I can find to this is that lying is so routine and commonplace to him that he didn’t actually realise he was lying.

[Noo_Noo]

@Mascot

The only possible solution I can find to this is that lying is so routine and commonplace to him that he didn’t actually realise he was lying

To be fair it’s probably the only real talent he has.

[costared]

Had plenty of practice. Strange thing is that his earlier lies, dating from 1987 that I know of, were punished with the sack.
Those of course were less important jobs. It seems the more important his job the more lies and BS he can get away with.

[Kopstar]

@Mascot

@Kopstar

@Kopstar

I’m not as cut and dried on the whole lying to Parliament thing. I think he can reasonably argue that he said what he understood to be true at the time.

PM says he did not mislead MPs

Chris Mason

Political editor

The prime minister is going out of his way here to emphasise that he did not knowingly mislead the House of Commons.

Being proven to have done so could cost him his job – so explaining why he believes he did not is crucial.

What he had said to MPs before was “what I believed to be true” he said.

Posted at 12:5512:55
I would like to correct the record, says PM
Having said that his “brief” attendance at some of the gatherings was not found to be outside the rules, but after he left or at gatherings he did not attend, the rules were breached.

He says “I would like to take this opportunity to correct the record”, adding that he does not want to “absolve myself of responsibity” but “simply to explain why I spoke as I did in this house”.

So when he claimed there wasn’t a party that it later transpired he was at, he wasn’t intending to mislead.

The only possible solution I can find to this is that lying is so routine and commonplace to him that he didn’t actually realise he was lying.

I don’t think he said that, did he?

What he said, iirc, is that guidelines were followed at all times.

[Mascot]

@Kopstar

[
What he said, iirc, is that guidelines were followed at all times.

At this point I’m starting to feel like Picard with the lights. He definitely, definitely, definitely said there were no parties. He switched tac to the ‘regulations followed’ line, when he could no longer claim they didn’t happen.

We’re a fucking gaslit nation at this point.