US Election 2024

Well bollocks. I went to bed and it didn’t look good, but was thinking you never know… then I woke up and Trump is confirmed.

Harris didn’t get enough people out to vote. Her campaign may have missed the mark in trying to broaden the tent and include the likes of Cheney. I could sort of understand it, as she really did want to govern in good faith, reaching across the aisle wherever possible. However, it appears this tactic didn’t mobilize enough of her base.

I think down the line, the likes of AOC need to come to the fore for the Democrats. Proper progressives who can make their case for a fairer country. I think it will mobilize the masses in a way that Harris did not, after another rather unfortunate Trump term, which we must now endure.

On a personal note, my gay daughter is distraught. She drove home 250 miles to vote in her first election, and I was proud of her. We live in a red state and I expected it to fall for Trump, and it did, but we were hoping Harris would win the election and the page would indeed turn over and leave Trump behind us.

The uncomfortable truth is that many, many millions of Americans chose him. He is the candidate they wanted. I am rather stunned by that, as what he will bring is an appalling agenda. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. Health, climate, education, foreign policy… anywhere you want to look has a great chance of getting worse. Possibly much worse.

One thing that goes up in smoke in all this is the rule of law. America sort of prides itself on its history - throwing off the old world, with an unaccountable king trying to rule them (there’s much more to the story, but this is the simple version in the American psyche).

Anyhow, it has come full circle and they just elected their own unaccountable king.

“In America no one is above the law.” That’s what the judge said in a lovely ceremony when I, along with a few dozen others from numerous nations around the world, became a citizen.

She was quite wrong. Trump is above the law. In many ways this is small beer compared to the agenda he will likely enact when he becomes President again. But his significant legal jeopardy, on numerous counts, is all going to get waved away.

Ugh. I’m sad for Ukraine. Trump will probably help to stop the war, and he will claim a victory, but half of Ukraine will be gone, and the aggressor, Putin, will be emboldened for further expansion, once they take a few years to re-arm and regroup.

NATO will be undermined and the UK won’t do well from this either, as Trump’s America is not a true friend, more a transactional relationship… and without the might of the EU bloc, the UK will just get crumbs from the table in trade and so on. Get back in the EU! Make up and mend fences.

People of Trump’s ilk around the world will be emboldened, and there will be more leaders like him coming to the fore.

History moves in cycles, so it won’t last forever. But this is bad news to wake up to today though. Ugh.

3 Likes

The election was contested on grounds that were almost entirely fictional. This country is broken, and I don’t mean because so many voted for a person and party who I find detestable, but because to a degree we’ve never seen this election was about things that just weren’t happening. If you are someone even remotely sympathetic to the view of the world Trump paints, and there is lots about the modern information system that works to reinforce that, there is a lot more reason to find his “solutions” appealing than if you live in the real world.

Sure, this is a comment that some people will say is elitist and smugly superior. But yes. This is where we are. And it now going to get worse. Our ability to actually know stuff is going to get so much harder with a government that gets hollowed out and a press that has already shown their belly to him. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

4 Likes

In a normal world perhaps, but in the media environment of today, are you surprised?

1 Like

What does it say? It appears to be behind a paywall for me.

1 Like

Please correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I saw from an earlier post in here that Trump got three million less votes than in 2020, and Harris 20 million less votes than Biden in 2020. So, I’d conclude that the tactics of demonizing the opponent isn’t an efficient one.

Edit: sorry, just saw your post above about her putting forward her program every day. Ok, then she must have done a miserable job of getting it across, or maybe more accurately, people didn’t want her program.

1 Like

I presume you’re referring to the Statista link? Sorry, paywalled for me now too. But it was mainly on abortion, the economy, and immigration, if I remember correctly.

EDIT: It was only for August and September though, and I think September showed a rise for ad spends on crime.

1 Like

But that’s presupposing that she would have performed better otherwise.

It could have been that she would have performed much worse had she not done that.

The stunning thing is not he won, is that he is going to win more convincingly than in 2016. Winning popular votes is something Republican had not done in 2 decades? He has done that. There is a chance he will get alot more electoral seats than he did in 2016 and Biden did in 2020.

Precisely. I think it’s one thing to keep talking about it but another thing to really understand what the voters are thinking as priorities. We can go on ramming that these voters are blinded but it is what it is. Perceptions are realities when it comes to voting. The voters who turned up just did not think Harris knew what they wanted and showed that in the only way they could demonstrate.

Raw vote count comparisons are not good to do when a significant part of the count has yet to be registered. It may end up being down from 2020, but we don’t know by how much yet and wont for several days.

But even once we do, pointing to a single choice from the campaign and removing the context in which that choice existed and how every other factor is interacting with it is just not a useful way to understand what happened during an election campaign. In fact I would say it is cope - a way to make us feel better that we are only one simple trick from turning around this anti democratic, hateful headwind we are experiencing. The reality is, whatever you wanted them to be doing they were already doing it just was not reaching people, or at least wasn’t in a way that was able to penetrate the depth of preconceived notions about what people felt this election was already about, and a lot of that was already locked in from the first 2 years of the Biden administration, but a big part of it is because we now live in an information space where reality is what the loudest people say it is. This is the problems Dems need to solve to win elections now, not figuring out what to change about their message.

5 Likes

World wide issue that.

Not sure how you counter it. The double down isn’t shifting and the truth is always slower.

2 Likes

This is the kind of logic “Republicans” are spouting. Bigging up the Nazi party as an example.

Awrtighty then.

2 Likes

Oh absolutely. And I have no idea. And that is the scale of the problem.

In 2004 I despised Bush, but at least the people who voted for him did so because of honest differences of opinion on what was better for the country. But this election? It just really is difficult to get your head around the dissonance. The election was fought on grounds that were based in rage fantasy, and with people voting for a guy whose ideas are pretty universally understood to likely make worse those issues those voters say they care about.

You hate open borders and think it allows too many dangerous criminals to be here? Ok, well open borders is not and never has been a thing. And Trumps misunderstanding of how to manage the border meant he was measurably worse at finding and removing this class of immigrant.

You are concerned about the economy? Ok, well we have an administration that has led our economy through global problems better than any of our peers have and are voting for a guy who will make every economic metric worse according the overwhelming majority of economists.

But she allows schools to give your kids sex change operations during the lunch hour without your consent.

6 Likes

Proliferation of Facebook and social media in general since 2004 has hd a direct impact on this.

Trump is basically a bad cosplay president becoming the actual President.

It’s like what happened in Tropic Thunder, actors assumed by the triads as actual commandos.

1 Like

This guy should return on the school bench and learn some history. As if modern Germany hadn’t been a super-power at least sixty years before that… :see_no_evil:

1 Like

I was in France recently and realized that I dont really understand much about the French revolution so started listening to a podcast about it. I was struck by how much of the precipitating factors related to the growth in power and influence of Prussia.

1 Like

At least The Kaiser and Hitler did something, like world wars, what did the opposition do, nothing

1 Like

Even worse, in his subsequent post he goes the Democrats help maintain the American “Imperialist Colonies”.

What?!? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I’m being generous, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he meant the hegemony of the corporations and not looking after the average person on the street.

We all know Trump won’t do that either, in fact he will do even worse. But that will never stop them from voting for him or his like again and again. Like I said in my previous posts this is now a cult-like pseudo religion and Trump is the messiah. You can’t argue with them, you can’t reason with them.

1 Like

MAGA crowd will tell you that that’s back in the day when Russia was a pussy (Prussia). Putin came to power and put a stop to that.

I have never missed @Scott.Jones like I do now.

5 Likes