Forgive me the sin of having/starting a discussion on a discussion board.
Keita may have played more than Gini but its hard not to label him as a bit of a flop so it’s understandable Gini continued starting a lot. Thiago came in but by the time he got up to speed Henderson and Fabinho were covering CB, if they hadn’t been I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest Gini would have played less. They won’t be covering CB next season so, if he was still here, I dont think it’s crazy to suggest he wouldn’t have played as much as he previously did.
I agree on this I just don’t see younger guys like Camavinga and Gravenberch as miles off the older guys simply because they are young. Ability is there now. But with it is the benefit of the lack of expectations regarding “starting” role and status along with there still being a lot of potential for even more improvement.
I listen, understand the point of view and then, if I don’t agree with it, present a counter argument. Sue me. Thought that was the point on here.
It’s not a discussion if you just say the same shit over and over insisting you are right all the time or know better than everyone else without even acknowledging their opinion is as valid as yours.
I wish you all the best with your “discussion”, I’m out.
I don’t like the perspective of “cover” outside of a couple of specific circumstances - 2nd choice keeper, maybe a 4th or 5th choice CB.
I think it far better to focus on competition. To some that may only be a semantic difference, but there is a difference. the former results in everyone being disappointed when said cover player ever gets selected (think Voronin playing with Torres on the bench). A competition player may still be subject to the personal whims and biases of individual fans, but the expectation is they’re going to be good enough to earn a run of games.
For me, the only consideration is how soon that run of games might reasonably be expected to come. to bring someone in who is expected to compete for starts as early as August or September will take a LOT of money with the quality of this group. Not only might that not be the best way to spend our money, in the longer term, with the overall high age of the core of this team, we might be best suited in a couple we’re willing to be a bit more patient with, which invariably means younger, less experienced and cheaper.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I do use terms like cover or starter or squad player for prospective signings it’s more as an expectation of how much they play and compared to existing players.
In the example of Jota I wasn’t expecting him to come in and immediately take a starting spot from any of the front three, but that he would be able to provide cover for them. That doesn’t mean that I don’t hope/think that he’s capable of pushing for and keeping a regular place in the first team if he’s showing better form than another player.
But there has to be an element of reality in what a player is likely to achieve in the squad. We have many players who are among the best in the world. If you’re buying someone like Jarrod Bowen you have don’t expect him to immediately take Mane’s spot and his wages would probably reflect that.
If you’re spending big on Saul or Barella, the expectation is to push to be a ‘starter’ rather than someone like Bissouma.
Every player should have the opportunity to make it as a regular starter, but the reality is some will only ever be ‘cover’ players.
Gravenberch is not available on a transfer this season and while Jones did ok, he is a Lallana replacement and not a player that can cover Wijnaldum. Hendo’s minutes will be managed as he is becoming injured at an increasing frequency, hence the reluctance to offer him a generous retirement contract.
Some have mentioned Declan Rice and maybe think Calvin Philips can be signed. Unfortunately they will cost anywhere between 70M-100M which is not value for money i.e. not FSG targets just like Sancho that Man U blew their budget on.
We can all hope Bellingham will go for a lot less next season but the challenge is getting these players in before they become household names that inflate in value. We have done that with Elliot, Koumetio, Musialowski, Fraudendorf and Kaide Gordon to some extent and if Camavinga is going to be the next best thing go for him.
I can not speak for Neuhaus but if his ceiling will be anywhere near his predecessors such as Schweinsteiger, Moeller, Kroos, Scholl, Ballack, Effenberg, Matthaeus or Haesller then he will be a great target but I have not seen him in action.
Neuhaus looks incredibly slow to me. At least has the height and physicality to make up for it, but ideally I’d probably want someone more mobile.
Wouldn’t necessarily be against the signing though.
Renato doesn’t ever seem to have put together a good run of more than 5 games. On paper his attributes look nice, but I can’t imagine the club would have any great confidence he could perform to the requisite standard over a long period of time.
Sanches for me. He is a beast, can hold the ball, pick a pass, and has a wonderful engine. I think Klopp makes this guy into a world class CM. Good value, right age, etc. The only concern is his injury record, but I don’t think it’s as bad as it’s made out to be. I’d be thrilled with that signing.
I think one of my main faults (that nobody would deny) is I explain my reasons and opinions over and over at length, repeatedly. I’m not very good at explaining myself but I’ll always try and explain why, in my opinion, someone is wrong. I don’t just say “you’re wrong”!
Maybe the problem lies in the idea that people who have a different opinion are ‘wrong’.
Most of the chat on here, and this thread is a perfect example, is about opinions. There is no correct answer. Maybe Neuhaus, maybe Saul, maybe Sanches and so on. We are all just expressing opinions, mostly based on little evidence. It’s just a bit of fun and will have no influence on what the club decides to do.
I’m probably wrong but until we started talking about how I tell people they’re wrong I don’t actually think I’ve told anyone they’re wrong. Just explained why I don’t agree with their opinions. And then put forward my opinions.
