And out of interest where is the “the chocolate chips are really rabbit droppings” and “the raspberry ie blood” or “cats vomit”? Not being funny be don’t like the way this has turned into some form of misrepresentation over the last day or so.
Clearly I was exagerrating partly for comedic effect but also to highlight the point that you have already decided which option you want (Camavinga/Gravenberch*) and all your posts seem framed around that opinion.
You don’t want to consider that buying an 18 year old from a ‘lesser’ team in a ‘farmers league’ lacking experience, might not definitely be able to come to the Premier League and play immediately and provide decent level cover and might end up letting us down. Go and look up at 19 year old Origi and you could construe similar expectations. Scored some important goals but has never risen above a cover player who most people want to sell every year for a better player.
Any choice of preferred CM is a valid one, there are just different metrics and values that people apply to their choice and they’re usually grounded in the reality of the situation of the club, the owners, Klopp, our current players and our previous decsions in the transfer market.
*Which are good choices and nobody is disagreeing that buying either of these players would be a good move if they can fill their potential. I think you’d struggle to find anyone who’d be genuinely unhappy with either.
Come on. Back to the CM conversation. Less of the intervention please.
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Leon Goretzka?
Entering the last year of his deal at Bayern, but thus far not agreed a new deal with Bayern. Some websites reporting he’s on 135k Euro a week. Twitter suggesting Man U considering a £200-250kpw along with ah £40odd million bid.
He’s 26, one hell of a unit, and whenever I’ve seen him play, he’s always looked at least a 7/10. Would be pretty happy if Edwards pulled off a masterclass on him.
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Averaged less than 2500 mins in last three seasons. Any idea why???
If you went to the effort of finding out how many minutes he’s played, you were probably on a webpage that also showed you he still makes the appearances you’d expect.
Other than some injuries the last couple of years he’s done;
2020/21 - 32 appearances, 6 times subbed on, 14 subbed off - total 2,243 mins
2019/20 - 38 appearances, 10 times subbed on, 13 subbed off - total 2,474 mins
2018/19 - 42 appearances, 13 times subbed on, 7 subbed off - total 2,720 mins.
Given the strength of the Bayern Munich team, that’s a decent amount of minutes played. Don’t forget, the Bundesliga is only an 18 team league (so 4 less fixtures than the PL), and they don’t have two cup competitions over in Germany, unlike for PL teams.
Last year Gini did some 4000 minutes, but in reality that was too much, but he was fit and rugged enough to play that much. But that doesn’t mean we expect that much every season from our midfielders. Obviously, if (and there aren’t any rumours!) we were to go for him, then our medical team would do their bit too.
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At this stage, there are very few players in the world who are good enough, obtainable, and in a price range we’d be willing to pay who could come in and expect to push out a key player on day 1. The issue is, what is their potential to ever break into what we’d think of as our CL final side, and what is the timeline. The way people use “Cover” that is a player who would never do that, and that is a level that just doesnt make sense for us to pursue, especially with several of these players likely entering their last year or two at this level and requiring us to ready up their replacement.
With that in mind, we need to look for players who will be expected to compete for games with those players. Maybe not from day 1, but if they are not being brought in with a view to seeing them start a CL final in 2 years time then we’re not really addressing the issue we do have with our ageing squad.
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I don’t disagree with anything here.
It’s more down to the intention of the word cover when used. Whenever I say cover for potential targets it’s always with an unsaid ‘younger player with potential to be a starter’
When Lovren and Moreno were starters in the team, there was no talk of buying cover for them, we all wanted an upgrade to be the 'starter" and for them to be sold or used as cover in the squad. In central defence now with only VVD a definite starter if fit, then Konate comes in to straight away compete for the spot next to him.
For a player like Origi or Shaqiri who are already cover players, if you want a replacement ideally it’s someone who provides cover for the starters but who can develop to become a starter once they leave. I don’t think any forward who arrives this summer is a starter and by definition starts as providing cover.
In terms of the midfield. Fabinho plays if fit, but it would be worth having a younger player who could cover that role. For the rest, I don’t think there’s any player (even Hendo) who is 100% nailed on for another spot, so I believe we should sign a player who can compete for a starting spot from day 1.
Unless it’s an emergency, or an exception like Thiago, I would never want us to sign a player who’s just to provide cover, I would always want it to be with an intention to develop into competition and then a starter.
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Maybe we should call them starter depth instead of cover.
That’s what you’d say Konate is and Jota too. Someone who adds depth as a starting option in that area. He might not be a starter on day one or every week initially but he could well be or in time you hope he will.
A midfielder of that type is what I think we’re after.
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Listening to Neil Jones on the Redmen live stream then, he seems to think there is absolutely no chance of Saul signing, in part due to what his wage demands would be and how that would possibly affect the structure and renewal negotiations with current players.
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Hope your right having lost Gini who was exactly that, we need his replacement to be able to contribute from the off given the unreliability of our CM unit.
I like Neuhaus more as a player but Saul coming from the AM system would be a good fit from the off you’d think.
I never liked that Neil Jones!
I think, as has been picked out above, the wages will be the thing making us think twice with Saul. Rumours are he’s already about on par with our top earners in terms of base salary. With so many contract renewals to be done, I think they’ll want someone willing to accept less as a basic but to be topped up with bonuses like most of our guys have done over the past few seasons. It’s a model that has served us well so I suspect they’ll look to continue that.
Means looking at someone on the cusp rather than a finished product or someone much younger potentially. But, we so rarely buy the finished article I’d be surprised if we did it in the same area of the pitch two summers in a row.
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What about James-Ward Prowse…the English Xavi.
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Would also think the club will be a bit wary of paying 30-40 mil + for a player like Saul plus 200k a week when he may not even be a first name on the team sheet player.
When fit Hendo Fabs and Thiago pick themselves, we need depth of course and another option on par or close too it with those 3 would be great to have. And for sure between those 3 games will be missed and we will need to rotate but its a big ask to spend that much for a player who isnt an automatic starter and convincing a player of that ilk to come here knowing he isn’t guaranteed to start will be tricky too.
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I’m not disagreeing with any of your points. I like Goretzka too and was rather devastated when he went to Bayern, for free. Fact remains that our regular players clock in access of 3000 mins. So he will have to do some stepping up, not to mention PL is much more rigorous than Bundesliga.
For me, it’s a forever yes to Goretzka. Posted many times in past. Absolutely adore the young man.
But this is mildly annoying:
https://twitter.com/cfbayern/status/1417829797577859077?s=21
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@Neukölln Yes, that’s mildly annoying. More so if they actually sign him. I might even feel a hint of envy.
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Imagine wasting your prime years under Ole.
Yip, if we “break” the wage structure, it will be for a Mbappe, definitely not a Saul.