I rate Jones as a decent player and I´d keep him.
But we need somebody (or two players) that take us to the next level and he isn´t that. We want to be aspiring to be like the PSG midfield or Madrid´s when it was good a few years ago.
I get that but you also posted in a reply to another poster that you watch very little football apart from Liverpool, that may have been Premier League footy though, so that is why rating Wharton on video highlights is hard and if you do so, say so.
It isn’t that I don’t rate Wharton, I have concerns about his whole game and his past fitness issues, which a lot relate to hamstring issues.
I do agree we need both, but our forward issues are going to cost a lot and I also believe we need a larger squad not smaller squad for Iraila’s style of play, so selling loads of players doesn’t work IMO.
Lamara is one and Sangare, only from stats, not cos they are necessarily better but they provide better value for money than Wharton, almost 2 for the price of one.
It all comes down to funds available and the forward positions do both need speedy an also players that are able to rotate positions and time on the pitch, without loss in quality.
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I can´t remember exactly what I said but I imagine I said I watch a lot less football than I used to, which is true. But I have seen plenty of Wharton´s games over the last few years.
Our forward options probably will cost a lot but then without a proper passing midfielder are we setting them (and Wirtz and Isak) up to succeed or fail? And are top quality wide players available? If not, should we instead be signing much better midfielders , if they are available?
Camara and Sangare look like different type of players to me. I don´t watch the French league so I don´t know the answer to this, but, yes they may be cheaper but are they good enough? If not, are they better value?
I get the idea we need a squad, but I also don´t see the point of having a big squad if the quality we have isnt good enough.
Indeed yes it all comes down to funds as you say, and what we can do with our budget, what we could raise etc. So it is all hard to speculate.
In the 24/25 season Jones started at CM in our 2-0 win over Madrid, started in our 1-0 win away at PSG, scored and assisted in our 2-1 win over Chelsea, played the full game in our 2-2 away at Arsenal, started the 2-0 win over Villa, started the 2-0 away win at Man City,
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No good having good progressive passers of the ball if there is no one to get on the end of the passes or to finish them.
Also, Camara and Sangare are different profiles which I have mentioned before and that’s why I chose those 2, Wharton is an upgrade on the progressive passing to both but they also have other overall strengths and cheaper.
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I really don’t want Curtis to leave as he has been our 2nd best midfielder this past season and has a good overall game and in a team that coughed up the ball a lot he can be trusted in possession more than the other midfielders.
Hopefully Iraola can tune his game to get even better performances from him
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Well we have Isak who would thrive with that and we have Wirtz who is struggling to get the ball from our current midfield.
Yeah I mean Camara and Sangare also seem different to each other and surely the point remains, are they good enough?
Yeah the underrating of Curtis on here is crazy. He’s a top player and one we should be playing and moving mountains to keep.
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What do you mean by a top player?
Who are top players that he is the same level as in your opinion?
Out of interest.
He’s better than anyone we’ve been linked with.
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Have we been linked with any midfielders?
Yeah - Sano, Nmecha, Bouaddi and Mora.
Ah yeah they´re mostly mediocre or young. Not sure if he´s better than Bouaddi or maybe Nmecha
He’s miles better than Nmecha.
A month ago no one was talking about Bouaddi. Statistically he’s a poor passer and doesn’t carry possession.
By comparison Jones is one of the best in Europe at both.
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Well nobody is talking about Jones either.
Jones is not one of the best passers at all. Him having a high pass completion is because he plays it simple.
He´s a decent player but I think you are going a bit OTT.
What´s meant to prove it there?
Vitinha is an insanely good footballer in possession. Not Jones.
It shows that among all Premier League midfielders he ranks 1st for forward passes completed per 90, 2nd in forward pass completion %, 3rd for progressive passes, 2nd for progressive passing %.
He’s not a brilliant player off the ball but on the ball there are few midfielders who are as comfortable as him.
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Assuming the stats are correct, what consitutes a forward pass? Slightly forwards but mostly sideways?
Without the context of each pass, it´s all worthless. I bet he has higher passes completed than Zidane did. And Gerrard
Midfielders do very different jobs than the days of Zidane and Gerrard but regardless both Zidane and Gerrard would rank extremely high on the progressive and forward pass metric.
Through balls is the one that would be lower.
I don’t know what’s so hard to believe about Jones, a PL winner who has been part of multiple 90+ point seasons, being a good player.
I’m more impressed by Jones than some random Moroccan kid with below average stats in the French league and who had a decent game against Haiti.
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