We have the same players, but that doesn´t make them the same standard or that they have the same role.
Especially when we don´t have Salah to carry us and Trent to do their passing job for them. Or Van Dijk being the best defender of all time with probably the best keeper in the world behind him.
Everything around them has changed and now they actually have to do more things and be the focus, and they can´t.
I’m sorry but they are all elite midfielders, most of whom start for top tier international sides. You’re making them sound like a bunch of journeymen who were lucky to be at the club.
And your proposed solution to this bunch of also-rans is to overpay for a lad who doesn’t look a natural fit with any of them and hope he can do it all?
Hungary and the Netherlands are not top international sides.
Ive asked you a few times who does fit with them, who are these standout players, and you don´t seem to be able to answer.
You are not trying to measure the quality of a pass. You are trying to measure the quality of a passer. In aggregate. Its an important difference.
Surely the quality of a passer is defined by the quality of passes he tends to make?
Quality again being a fairly subjective or not clearly defined thing.
Not the same position, but Wharton’s passing definitely reminds me of Coutinho — the way they find space is unique and very ambitious. The numbers could be affected by the team plan, but his unique talent is very obvious. I like setting us up like that: a group of players who aren’t perfect, but who have one very outstanding strength.
And in the Holland setup the only truly elite midfielder is De Jong. Grav has his qualities but also glaring weaknesses. You can’t really term him as “elite” when he has problems passing the ball consistently to his immediate teammate.
Same for Szobo, strengths undoubtedly but he loses possession way too easily and often at inopportune times and places.
Macca we’ve done to death. Mobility and energy.
We can’t keep saying “title winning midfield” without context.
Yes they were but there was a significant master passer who took up their lack of passing which was Trent.
Yes Macca can pass but in his current state you have to say he is more a liability than an asset on the pitch. This MacAllister isn’t the title winning MacAllister.
We cannot ignore that, but Bradley played enough that season for us to test how fundamental Trent’s passing was to the make up of the team. The result was we, and Bradley himself, played well enough that a significant number of fans were totally fine with how we’d replace Trent
For me Grav and Szobo are decent or good midfielders but it´s not exactly a hotly contested field. Very few really good midfielders nowadays. Vitinha and err? Rodri still I guess. Valverde is pretty good. It´s not quite Pirlo, Xavi, Gerrard, etc is it.
I think the expectations on midfielders are a bit different. Lots of running around and pressing rather than being expected to do a lot with the ball. Without Trent at RB doing the passing they should be doing and without Salah carrying the team, I think we saw how good our midfielders really are.
We should just get Souness back. He won titles! Title winning midfielder.
Our issue for the midfield last season was less about the lack of a Trent and more about our failure to set up and play in a cohesive manner. Our lack of a co-ordinated press, huge gaps in midfield made worse by Gravenberch wanting to press high but being dragged back and ultimately being caught in the middle leaving MacAllister to cover wide spaces on his own.
Much of that I expect will be resolved through Andoni’s set up so our midfield is likely to look much better than it did last season.
Netherlands are 8th in the FIFA World Rankings so yeah, they’re a top tier international side.
I’m saying I don’t know how Iraola will set us up so I don’t know who it is that will fit best for what he’ll want us to do. You don’t seem to be offering much of a solution here other than buy Wharton and sell whoever else because they’re all shit anyway. Wharton will have to be a damn sight better than anything he’s shown so far to play in midfield all by himself.
We do seriously lack long-passing capability after Trent left.
The likes of Jones, Grav and Szobo could not pass a ball further than a few yards, while Macca was dreadful.
I’m not suggesting we don’t, but that wasn’t the fundamental problem affecting our midfield last season.
Netherlands has been bang average at international competitions since 2018
The rankings are notorious crap. Brazil are 5th and just got knocked out by Norway.
But I´m asking what you think would be a good fit for them and what you´d do.
I mean, you say how he is going to setup. What setup varieties impact who suits Gravenberch?
For some reason you´re upset about Wharton, so alright, what are these other options you claimed we could do.
I said shit? Don´t do that. It´s disingenuous. Petty.
Yes it did, it was a core reason why we could not even do 2-3 pass counters (which had been our specialty) anymore.
We do. And the ability to pass quickly through the opponents´ middle.
it´s madness people talk only about pressing and off the ball, when our midfielders barely exchange 2 passes together and Wirtz is constantly asking for the ball and not getting.
The Jones discussion surely has an easy middle ground to find? Regardless of how good you think he is, surely we can all agree that for the very modest fee being linked to his potential transfer, we would much rather keep him. My hope is that he impresses Iraola, signs a new deal, and sees plenty of action in a resurgent Liverpool side.
There are a number of midfielders who are being touted for double or triple the price of Jones, and the gap in quality does not reflect the gap in price.
I would like to see us sign a midfielder. Who? Not sure. What I will say is I was very concerned about teams playing through us last season. Whether or not that is going to be addressed through Iraola’s coaching and team set up, or a new signing, remains to be seen. Probably a bit of both.
I also think Mac Allister might be vulnerable to a sale, similar to Gakpo. Both good players and if we keep them, fine. But both also potentially desirable to other teams for a tidy sum of money, which we might choose to take and reinvest.