Jordan Henderson (CM) to Al-Ettifaq

And this IMO is where losing a player like Fab and replacing him with an inexperienced youngster like Lavia may hurt us if we go that route.

A season is played over 38 games so on the whole, being a bit soft in the centre won’t be as big a deal when most of the opposition we face won’t be coming at us. But just as City played their experienced guys in for the big games to great success, that’s how I would have liked to have seen Fab (and Hendo) used.

I think the Fab interest probably has made us look at alternatives to Lavia because of this.

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I think assuming we’re going to be soft in the center because the players involved are such technically sound creative players is a very old fashioned perspective though. Very few players can thrive at this level today without being defensively sound, and that is even more true for a side like ours that 1) requires incredible defensive commitment, and 2) has a defensive structure that makes people even better defenders than they were before.

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Yes and no. City wouldn’t play 3 KDBs if they had them. I completely understand that football is no longer this rigid structure of set positions. I can imagine these days players would get instructions on exactly which areas of the pitch they need to attack, cover, players to partly cover, zones to dominate depending on who we are playing. Mac, Henderson, Elliott could effectively be given the similar instructions depending on which gets chosen, who is fit at the time.

But like my KDB example above, I also think there are some ways of playing that are far removed from a player. I hear some people talking about Mac having played a bit deeper, but I cannot understand the logic of having someone like Mac then limiting his best attributes like that.

We should, and are, targeting players that allow them to play to a certain way that serves the team and also lets their best abilities shine.

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United haven’t attacked against us for 7+ years. Arsenal sit back too. City is the only game where both teams go for it

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Not sure this coming season. Think they will attack us more than they have especially Arsenal. Do think we will need a proper DM for those games to take out players like Bruno regardless of how bad United can be

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In our side there is no position a player can play where he is not expected to do well defensively when he is required to defend. The question then is far less one of “is this group of players as people defensively solid enough”, and more one of “does this shape leave us exposed when we dont have the ball.”

So if your concern is whether Mac will be suitably used to his strengths in a primarily behind the ball passing role, then I can understand that. What I dont buy is there being reason for concern that we’re good defensively if Mac play as one of the 8s, but we’ll be weak if he’s one of the 6s.

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567 posts and still not signed to a Saudi club. how odd. I thought for sure these journalists were truthful folks…

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I think we were exposed during transitions because of Fabinho, not despite having him. What I’ve seen of Mac Allister he’s a very sensible and solid player - yes he’s technically talented and has the ability to pick a pass out but he’s not an out and out attacking player even though Brighton often used him in advanced positions. He’s way more of a central midfielder who has the technical capability of playing further forward, than an attacking midfielder who can cover in midfield.

In my opinion we wouldn’t have signed him if we were only looking at him as an ‘attacking midfielder’, he could offer a lot more in the deeper role and is a diligent , intelligent and hard-working player (not in the Mason Mount way of running around but doing nothing). Mac Allister is I think more than good enough defensively to play the type of role I expect to see - which is a link man between defence and midfield, staying fairly central, making late support runs. I think think we see him become a true CM.

Trent showed himself to be excellent in the press when he moved into the hybrid role but there was some refinement clearly needed to how that position is played, and to how Konate covers the space. Now we have pre-season to work on that instead of dropping it in with 11 games to go.

That box allows a heavy, heavy press for much of the game (another reason why I think young players are required, to enable that intensity to be kept up). Trent, Mac, Jones and - reputedly - Szoboszlai are excellent in the pressing game. And while it is true to say that Trent is in a midfield role only during our attacking phases - and the transition from attack to defence - we dominate possession almost every game we play and particularly with the box (our possession stats for last eleven games was 59, 73, 80, 72, 67, 57, 54, 66, 66, 69). Trent is going to be there a lot, making us have two deep lying midfielders during attacking phases and transitions, that negates the need for a pure 6 and may actually make having one be a detriment to the system anyway. We were a dominant team in possession with Fabinho and Henderson playing. When we have Mac Allister and Szoboszlai in there instead that control will only increase.

I was critical of Klopp for sticking with Fabinho so much this season and for not having a replacement ready but I now believe that the reason was he didn’t want another Fabinho. All the top sides are moving away from his type of player. Rice isn’t a pure 6, he’s a defensively minded 8. Rodri is one of the worst defenders in the league, still a brilliant deep midfielder though because his role in possession is way more important, and because they bring Stones out of RB to act as a second central midfielder. Arsenal are trying to get Partey out. Real Madrid don’t have a destroyer, they’re going to have Bellingham or Camavinga in that role. I really don’t believe Fabinho would have decided to leave if he wasn’t told his role was being reduced.

I think the plan is to smother the other sides with possession, hit them fast in the counter press to win it back or force a long ball where we back van Dijk, Konate and Robertson to win it or hold it up while we reset into the ‘standard’ defensive shape. Offensively, you have the standard three forward, with Gakpo dropping a bit deeper. Then you have two attacking midfielders capable of breaking the lines just behind them, then you have two deep midfielders who are both able to kill you with their passing. Having this system creates far more problems for the opposition than it does for us.

Anyway, no doubt we will get to the start of the season and Klopp will have us back in our 433 with Henderson playing the deep pivot and everything I’ve said will be irrelevant :joy:

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I think we’d be highlighting them. I find him a bit meh for a pure AM. Fine for Brighton but his playmaking ability isn’t particularly great and he’s a bit static on the ball. Doesn’t really break lines but he does support play very well, is excellent at runs from deep, and is a tireless player.

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How he was asked to play at Brighton to how he will play here will be night and day differences.

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Before Fabinho came in we were crying out for a defensive midfielder and I’m pretty sure his replacement will be at least someone who’s versatile but comfortable with the defensive game if not an out and out CDM.

I don’t think it is a straight comparison though. Obviously it depends on how you define a DM (for me, it’s a destroyer role). Yes, people were calling for a DM - but for many it was a reflection of how they see the game, not necessarily what was needed.

We didn’t have many midfield options, and those we did were not necessarily strong technically. I think we are probably better off in both aspects now if what people say about Mac and Szobo is correct. Furthermore the tactical tweak bringing Trent into the middle itself makes a big difference too.

Henderson could have agreed to terms with the club and received permission to leave which is what was reported. Whether Liverpool reach a deal with them is a separate story.

You can’t just reject news because you don’t like it. There’s no reason to believe that Ornstein was wrong.

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700k/week is your first clue.

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Many of Fabinho’s worst games have come against City.

The two league games in 21/22 that ultimately cost us the title were two of his worst performances in a red shirt.

I’m not sure we’d lose much there with his departure. A more mobile player wouldn’t be strolled past so easily by De Bruyne and Silva.

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Do you have any reporting to back this? Or are you just rejecting it on a hunch?

Have to upgrade,contracts will be carried by drones next.

Well - plane has landed in Stuttgart. Heading off to Frankfurt and Madrid Tuesday. Tchouameni next? :money_mouth_face:

critical thinking. the odds of LFC being short on homegrown players, letting their captain sign with another club in pre-season leaving them short on registration slots and having to deal with Thurs night Europa League with few viable like-for-like replacements available… it doesn’t make sense for them to do so. Fabinho makes far more sense, but not Henderson.

Yup. Guaranteed. Hope it doesn’t go to Manchester after that.

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