Personally I think our problems are far more extensive than simply losing the final after missing out on the league by a point, but imagine we had lost that 2019 final. Oof. We came out like a house on fire the next season because we had the confidence from winning it, but I shudder to think about what would have happened had the opposite occurred. I guess we are partially getting our answer.
Other valid comparisons are 80-81. A team long in to the tooth and kept together one season too long suffered through a difficult league season only to salvage it at the end with a European Cup win prior to a significant rejuvenation the following year leading to a run of 3 consecutive titles
Alternatively, it is an example of covering back to get back into position only to do nothing once you get there. He was in that position because Gomez had been stuck out wide trying to recover from his initial mistake. That means Trent is filling in at CB and does nothing.
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Itās an example of the idea of incremental improvement. I wonder with all these efforts of tinkering around the edges if we havenāt over complicated life for the players. Top athletes are often good not because they have a Neo like ability to take in all the data and analyse it, but because theyāre great at filtering out the unimportant stuff and focusing on the one or two things that are essential to complete the task. I wonder if we have ended up with a few players who in their attempt to get that extra 0.5% are overly focusing on the small details and forgetting the importance of the basics.
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At least specifically to Neuro11 I donāt think that would be the case. In fact, it would be quite the opposite, trying to aid them in zoning out all the minor details by training it in so that it becomes second-nature, especially through mimicking the brain patterns seen. The result would be higher consistency.
Because of things like this.
Two minutes into the game, theyāve already hit the post at this point from a ball over the top. Our three midfielders highlighted all in the same small pocket on the pitch. Two of them pretty much out the game at this point from a simple pass into midfield. None of them getting pressure on the player in possession who then dinks an easy ball over the top of the backline (who arenāt covering themselves in glory here either).
In addition to the ball over the top, thereās a simple pass past Milner which takes the ball past our entire midfield and makes a three on three (albeit the defence is there). Thereās a ball that can be rolled between Milner and Fabinho for their midfielder to come onto with an acre of space in front of him to charge into, or an ambitious ball out the man completely free on the right hand side.
I dunno where Robbo has been but itās probably fair to say heās pushed up somewhere and no one is covering for him because all the midfielders are in the far quarter side of the pitch.
10 of ours in that picture, 8 of theirs. And yet weāve no control over the situation whatsoever and there is zero pressure on the ball, presence in the middle of the pitch or cover for Robbo. That encapsulates us in a nutshell at the moment. Wide open through the middle, vulnerable to the ball over the top, vulnerable to the ball in behind the fullbacks. And thatās largely because the midfield isnāt where it should be or doing what it should be.
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On most the goals weāve conceded this season you see players in and around the ball, but not in the right position to do anything about it.
Looking at that image, Robertson is at the bottom there running back to try to catch up with play, because somehow thereās the runner beyond there whom youāve identified as completely free on the right hand side. I think the pass beyond Milner is harder than it looks, although all it takes is some skill to get past Milner and thatās the situation set up.
Diaz is covering the midfielder in the centre. The collective mass of our players is biased towards that side, which makes sense as thatās where everyone is.
How it used to work is that we would put pressure on the player with the ball, with all the other players cutting off the passing routes. Sometimes, this pressure would involve more than one player, which would match up with either of Elliott or Fabinho being there, but this more often used to take place with either Alexander-Arnold or Salah with one of the midfielder rather than 2 midfielders together.
Youāve pinpointed one situation, which follows on from the observation that in general, thatās how we have been setting ourselves up, vacating the centre a lot, pushing play out wide, without the associated movement to take advantage of the space that results. It could have been the midfielders who would take responsibility for the middle, or it could have been the forwards who were directed to take up that space, especially in such a situation. We donāt actually know whoās responsible for that, since quite clearly given what heās been saying, weāre simply not implementing the gameplan properly.
The balance of probability does suggest that it might be the midfielders whose responsibility it really is, but it could well have been the forwards. Itās not implausible to suggest that the instruction may be there that once weāve applied the right pressure and cut off the forward passes appropriately, then if the opponent tries to play it sideways, Diaz or whoever is supposed to be there might just wipe up the pass and then advance with the ball.
Itās a still image so it doesnāt quite tell the whole story I admit but that snapshot showing where everyone is is terrifying. At best weāve a 3v2 on that far side and we hope they look to go backwards. The reality is itās a 2v1 on this far side and all of Elliott, Fabinho and Gomez are out the game at this point. Milner and Trent are like blokes stuck between bus stops, knowing theyāre too late to get a proper press but also knowing they need to try and affect the player in possession somehow. What they do is neither and they are simply bypassed.
The pressing thing has always been about getting teams to go backwards, make forward passes a high probability risk of losing it or forcing players to give it to someone else whoāll then be under pressure. That isnāt happening anymore.
I think the forwards are fairly well set. Salah is in the passing lane back to the fullback and Bobby and Diaz are ready to pounce if the ball comes back to the other two guys in that diagonal line with the left back. But Elliott, Fab and Milner are a mess. Milner, who is actually the most left sided of the CMās, is actually the furthest right. That should be where Elliott is with Trent covering the run down the line and bringing pressure if the guy turns back. Fabinho has vacated the middle and Milner is so far over thereās a gaping hole that Robertson is desperately trying to get back to cover.
We wonder why we look so open down the middle? Well thatās because weāre chasing our tails and the players we have in there arenāt the fastest or most physical when it comes to chasing back. You canāt look at that shape and think that is by design. Something is going on to make that happen. Is it the midfield pushing on too much? Is it over compensating to help out Elliott who is young, still learning and not as strong on the defensive side of things? Personally I think itās poorly executed pressing. The first press is getting bypassed too easily and then weāre immediately in panic mode with holes everywhere.
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What about this in the build up to the second penalty.
- weak pressure on the defender from Mo (just runs by him, no actual effort to engage)
- Elliott, Milner and Fabinho all in the far quarter of the pitch
- Elliott wrong side of the player about to receive the ball making it an easy pass and brings play into the centre of the pitch
- centre of the pitch entirely vacant apart from Anguissa who is stood all on his own
- Milner makes an effort to close the man receiving the ball down but is 10 yards away when the player then roles it to Anguissa who is completely free and able to turn
At this point, weāre fucked and no one has got close to one of their players and theyāve only made two very simple passes.
Milner has run past Trent to go and make a woeful attempt at pressing that heās never going to get to because the pass into the middle is so easy to make. Gomez has been pulled wide because thereās a man behind Trent. It opens up a chasm so large even a bang average player like Anguissa can play an incisive through ball that puts us in huge danger.
If Milner or Fabinho are more central, and as the left sided one of the three it probably should be Milner, then that pass into Anguissa is still on but he doesnāt get to turn and bring it forward unhindered. Trent also knows the man behind him is his rather than thinking thereās a midfielder behind him.
But it starts with a woeful press by Mo and Elliott hedging his bets on which man is likely to get the ball and heās the wrong side of the one who does. So, itās not just the midfield, but the midfield could have mitigated the earlier mistakes.
EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I begin to wonder if Elliott is the issue. As good as he is Iām not sure where heās playing is right and whether some of the shape issues are trying to protect him and as a byproduct Trent because Elliott isnāt doing that side of things.
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Well then when Elliott plays whoever is the fullback on his side has to stay back and let him do the attacking
Well thatās one answer. But then youāre taking away the best part of Trentās game and one of, if not the main creative threat in the team.
Salah is also looking way below par too and people have constantly mentioned him not getting the ball in threatening situations and looking like heās playing too far wide.
Iām not having a go at Elliott, heās a great prospect. But we are asking an awful lot of him to play in that midfield three. Heās still only played a handful of his games there with most of his senior career being much more of a front three type player.
Nothing much is going right at the moment but two of our biggest threats have seemingly been neutralised, both on that side of the pitch. Once again, injuries are necessitating he plays. That was his third start in a week. And he has looked like our brightest midfield player so far but everything around him seems to have got a bit jammed up. Not saying itās his fault, heās just a different type of player compared to some of the more workmanlike ones weāve previously had that perhaps helped Mo and Trent excel more.
I dunno, those pictures of everyone that side of the pitch makes me wonder if thereās an element of players trying to protect him more when weāre out of possession and him, Mo and Trent getting in each others way going forward.
Fundamentally the goal when pressing is to give the player on the ball no good options for where to pass the ball. The person who puts pressure on the ball forces them to play in the direction we want them to play in, and each pass that is made goes only to players who will receive it under pressure and who themselves only have bad options. Itās not man to man, but in the specific situation everyone has to be responsible for a particular player. It only takes one player to not be close enough to their guy or positioned badly in a way that allows them to change the point of play and get away from the area of the pitch youāre trying to limit play to.
With Mo in that screenshot, you can argue heās directing play into either the touchline or up the middle, which is the right start. But then you look at everyone else and there is barely another player you can identify 1) that they are responsible for a player, and 2) are on the right side of their player to force them to keep playing the same way . And you can take any screenshot from any time Napoli have the ball and you can identify at least 1 player who is an easy outball for them. Itās a shambles.
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The issues have been there Elliott or not, I think?
Thiago was on the field for 28 minutes but made six tackles - more than the starting midfield three and the two full-backs combined. He also won seven of his nine duels [78%]. Fabinho won just 2/8 [25%] and Milner won just 3/11 [27%]. #lfc [james pearce - the athletic]
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Very true. He made a very positive impact when he came on against Fulham too in a team that was really struggling at the time.
Maybe im judging him too heavily on last night but thereās this nagging sense that thereās not enough on the defensive side of things just yet and thatās a big part of whatās off. Not the only thing by any means but heās a different type of midfielder than weāve typically played there before and the link up down that side with two of our biggest threats is also suffering.
smaller than who, exactly? a handful of teams in the entire world?
unbelievable what I read on this forum.
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Completely agree with this, the reason being I feel it myself as a supporter.
The thing is these lads have run through brick walls the past 4 years and in 3 of them have done enough to overcome Cityās blatant cheating only to be fucked over by bent referees.
Thatās why we should have gone after Kavanagh last season and destroyed the cunt. But no, as usual we bent over and took it so who can blame the players for thinking whatās the point when the club clearly doesnāt have their back?
Iāve gone into this season not really giving a shite anymore. If we beat them on the pitch then thereās enough corrupt officials to make sure it doesnāt matter.
In the past few months weāve had Lampard and Declan Rice hinting at corruption when in reality they both have less to complain about than ourselves and yet the silence is deafening from the powers that be at our club. Maybe the players have had enough.
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100% correct. heās a talent but I donāt think heās quite suited to that role yet. not too often you see him tracking back like Hendo would.
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Third goal he does track back but gets done with a simple one-two. Fourth goal itās his man that scores it. When Zielinski starts his run from around half way, Harvey is less than five yards from him. By the time the ball goes over the top itās 20+ yards and theyāve got a three on two. Fuck knows how one looped ball takes out seven of your players who are behind the ball though.
Heās by no means the only one at fault but heās not tracked his runner either time and theyāve scored on both those occasions.
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