The Unreliable Rumours Discussion Thread (Part 2)

Woah. Seriously?

Drop Van Den Berg is nowhere close to Joe Gomez’s level. Van Den Berg as our fourth choice, alongside Matip, Konate and Van Dijk - who are all to a greater or lesser extent injury probe, would mean he gets a least twenty starts over the season.

I wouldn’t really be happy with that.

I’m fine with the club wanting to have a shake up at centre back, and even selling Gomez, who I really rate. But we have to do it properly. Sell Joe, buy Gvardiol - who is practically begging to come here - and work from a pool of Gvardiol, Konate and Van Dijk, with Matip as fourth choice, and get ready to transition away from Van Dijk in the season after this one.

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Yes I think we are at the point he isn’t being effective for us. We need to stop carrying players back from injury and back into form… The team is full of these players which isn’t helping with the overburden on the ones who do stay fit.

Van Den Berg was excellent at Preston as the RCB in a back 3 or right back till he got injured.

I did say purchase a center back btw. Alongside Van Den Berg coming back. Gvardiol would be excellent, I really like Colwill as well.

So it would be - Van Dijk, Konate, Matip, Gvardiol, Van Den Berg.

Yeah I just wonder at times like, just to use Loftus Cheek as an example, a player like that where obviously have some talent and potential, if a manager like Klopp could bring his potential to the max or he is just shite. A club like Chelsea who has no regard for the players as a human blurred that, so many players career they have just destroyed…of course they get paid really well in the process.

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No no, he’s just shit.

Palace didn’t even want him back…neither did Fulham…been given ample chances at Chelsea to shine and never has.

Chelsea do a lot better with their academy than we do…

But you’re suggesting we ask him to come up a division, and play a different position, in a back four, and do so more than twenty times a season.

I’m OK with selling Joe, and rebuilding the defence, but let’s do it properly. As long as our centre backs are injury prone, fourth choice isn’t just making up the numbers and playing early rounds cup games. They are platting a lot of league games.

No, this was my point;

"I’d also be open to selling Salah to fund some of this rebuild and also bring in a center back as I think we really need some more depth/competition in that area.

I’d let Gomez go, think he needs a season away from the limelight to just play and regain his form and fitness. Ven De berg to come back to take that slot."

Ah I see. So you’d bring in an additional centre back, and SVDB would effectively be fifth choice?

Yep exactly.

The model requires there is sufficient investment to be seriously competitive so all the revenue streams are maximized. That will never justify year on year transfer losses, because if you find yourself having to operate like that then the model is broken, but it will justify a short term loss of operating expenses in the even the team reaches a place of needing significant investment. As long as that is not the norm

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Ok stat nerds, i need your help. Where can i find stats to show much ground someone has covered (how much they run around during a game) and ball retention? I’d look at those #s for mids and target them. I think this team is badly missing Gini type and would want to find that type of player.

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Google is usually a good place.

If FSG don’t have the money now for Jude, they won’t have it next season.

I’ve tried but can’t find decent site with what I am looking for so I’m looking for help.

Him and Bellingham as double pivots would be pretty good I think…

The Athletics did an interesting piece several weeks ago about what Gini brought to the side statistically and how few players meet anything like that combination of factors. One of the key things when looking at stats is that the straight forward and obvious ones, like # of passes, rarely provide value. They always have to be further contextualized. So instead of just thinking about tackles, or challenge win % or the sort of stuff you see commonly, this was what they identified of Gini’s importance…

If they are correct and this 1) did characterize his role for his, and 2) we havent replaced it, then what you’d expect is an opposition able to play in a far wider area of the pitch and our press being much less effective, which is precisely what we have been seeing.

The players they identified as offering something similar were Pedri at Barca. Barella at Inter. Willock of Newcastle, somewhat surprisingly. And far less surprising, Caicedo.

Other less well known names were World cup break out star for Morroco - Azzedine Ounahi from Angers, Matteo Guendouzi, Forest’s Orel Mangala, Fiorentina’s Youssef Maleh.

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I’m trying to boil it down even simpler lol: do you run around, and do you keep the ball. Someone with an extra set of lungs to get around the pitch is what we are lacking. Thiago is such a good player but we don’t really need his finesse right now, we need a bit of grit and hustle. Ideally, you want both, but with how things look I’d probably turn a bit towards the guy doing all the dirty work for the team when we don’t have the ball.

The point many of us have been making, which is backed up by that Athletic piece, is a big part of our failings this season is our inability to limit the areas of pitch we give the opposition to play in. You cannot effectively press in the midfield you don’t first do that and no amount of legs is going to make up for that.

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FBref is the best free stats website although from memory I do not believe they have raw ‘ground covered’ stats. You may be able to piece something indicative of that from pressures per game.

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I am pretty sure Thiago has higher interceptions and won more duels than Fabinho or Hendo…

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I’m not taking shots at Thiago. He’s a brilliant player. I’d counter with Hendo might be best served as a role player off the bench and I wasn’t talking about a new #6.