The managers not always right.In this case Jurgen should have chosen his words more carefully.If you can’t say 1 fan knows better than another based on where they come from then in this instance you cannot say a player or manager knows better than the fan base just because they play for or manage the club.Some people on both sides of this arguement will have been with the club as supporters for decades,through many managers and player and just as im not going to tell who to cheer,i’m not going to tell who to jeer.
Ive seen Lucas jeered cause he wasn’t as good as Gerrard,i’ve seen Konchesky jeered cause he was,well Konchesky and I’ve seen Suarez cheered through a number of incidents.
In my opinion,the regular match going fan,weather foreign or not generally have a fair grasp on the mood in the stadium and to some in the city and they didn’t like how this gone down.They expressed their displeasure on that night and hopefully it is done with.But i will back them to express themselves everytime as they are the ones who have given everything to the club.
Supporters,manager then players.
Yeah, you’re completely right mate, I should have never doubted your superior intelligence.
@mods can we close the forum and let @RER give a sermon once a week instead, he is clearly unrivalled in his knowledge and knows everything about everything. Not only that, he understands how people feel better than the people themselves. He is the oracle.
Is that enough to get you to fuck off and stop engaging with me on this?
You mean the way Alexander-Arnold has been playing with painkilling injections over much of the past few years doesn’t qualify for that?
I think it’s over-mythologising the fans to act as though so many of them have given so much to the club, when not all of them are working-class fans who fork over a significant amount of their income to the club.
Not to mention so much of the anger is just based on rumours and misinterpreted stuff. Like the supposed approach of Real Madrid two years ago, was a misinterpretation of what Wenger said:
For most of that quote it isn’t even about Real Madrid nor Alexander-Arnold, it was about how big clubs in general work. Which implies that we’re not exempt from acting like this either, nor is it implied that the club itself expected anything different as though it was some horrific betrayal.
When @Mascot mentioned the whole “learning Spanish 18 months ago” bullshit, I looked it up, and it’s literally just something people made up. There’s no proof of it anywhere, and it’s in fact cited that he learnt Spanish at school.
This is what a baying mob looks like, and there’s no rationality nor reason at all to any of this. There’s a vast difference between acting completely rationally, based on factual evidence, without the involvement of emotions, and this, which is the exact opposite. People are losing their heads.
And you mention fans, but how much of this is just caused by “fans” making things up and spreading rumours for clout or knee-jerking? We laugh a lot about AFTV, or Goldbridge, but this is the exact same toxicity manifesting with our club. But somehow it’s fine because it’s us?
I’m not even at an opposing end of the spectrum to you.
I just think what people think they know about this, and what they actually do know are vastly different. Personally, I know jack shit about what’s going on, because he made it clear from the start that he wouldn’t be saying anything to the media about his contract, and he upheld that. I see people crying (on other places, not this forum) about the vice-captain not speaking to the media, but on the flipside if he did media duties, they would be blaming him for having his future be a distraction. He made a promise, he upheld it. He signed a contract, he upheld it. Beyond that, there’s literally nothing that fans will know about the situation. Whatever’s out there is pretty much out there because someone has put it out there with an agenda in mind.
And yet people are more than happy to defend an act that pretty much goes against the reputation of Anfield based on what, rumours? Fabrications? And it’s ironic that people are so keen to defend this booing, when the initial reports, and on this forum, were claiming that it was only a small minority rather than the vast majority of match-going fans that it’s now being made out to be.
I think what you and I can agree on is this whole fuss is a complete farce.
You have every right to cheer him on if you feel what you have wrote above is correct,but others will think you are wrong in your opinion.
Those people believe the opposite happened and like you they have every right to express their beliefs and you have every right to disagree with them.Should they have expressed it in the way they did,again that is a matter of opinion,but they thought it was right.
Maybe they felt it really was the only time the message to him and others would be heard on masse.
I don’t think he needs to be cheered on. I just think they shouldn’t have booed at all.
I disagree that they should have even though I’d say that it is their right to express it. I just happen to disagree that it was worth throwing the reputation of Anfield away just to boo Real Madrid’s latest expensive flop.
I can see where we may need to be careful with our reputation,although i also see talk already of madrid eyeing Konate on a free next year and having an interest in Macca.
We all know how madrid work and how they have no problem using the media to unsettle players.If we sit back and allow that club/any club unsettle our players by not voicing in public when given the chance,then those tactics will continue to happen and players will see out their contracts/agitate for moves knowing full well the fans will just accept it.
Against arsenal the league was already done.The supporters showed their disapproval,hopefully that’s the end of it.I’d like to see him get a warm sending off for all he has done at this club.I think he will but i also think maybe Jurgen has riled a few people up but again hopefully they,the fans feel the point has been made and leave it at that.
And I’ve been calling that out since the very start of this thread. And guess what?
This is exactly the kind of attitude that will unsettle players/push them out. Why would they give their all, or bother to even come here to begin with, if the moment rumours start swirling around them fans start turning on them.
Liverpool fans have done more to unsettle him by believing in the rumours and being nasty about it than Real Madrid starting the rumours ever did. If Liverpool fans don’t turn on their own, then whatever unsettling through the media would never work.
Just look at all the shite that’s being said about Konaté for example. A player who sat in the stands after the celebrations just to see what it’s like from the perspective of the fans, but now we need to sell him if he doesn’t agree a contract before 30 June?
If anything, the fans are making it clear that it’s pretty much a one-way relationship. As a player, you serve their petty demands. If they don’t like you, they’ll want you sold in a heartbeat, but they expect your undying loyalty regardless. You’re disposable to them, they’re never going to love you forever. Why the hell would any player look at that and think that it’s special and it’s worth staying for?
Going back to bad relationship analogies, it’s like constantly criticising your partner and always thinking the worst of them because you’re afraid they’ll leave. Why the hell would they stay?
You use the term petty demands?
What demands to supporters place on players?
That they do their best?
That they make an effort?
That they show a modicum of loyalty and respect?
What do the players get?
Support.
Serious money every week.
A career that few can dream about.
Liverpool players don’t get booed.
I remember reading about Peter Thompson getting stick when substituting Heighway.
And Lucas as @jaffod mentioned. I didnt like Lucas but disagreed with booing him.
Trent made a decision and maybe under estimated the consequences.
Your argument is destroyed by reducing what fams want as petty demands.
How about having 100% impeccable body language all the time otherwise they’re going to slag you off, depending on whatever transfer rumour they’ve read that week?
The very same body language he’s had since he broke through until now, was suddenly a sign that he didn’t give a shit and desperately wanted to leave.
Or that they apparently need the team to be performing well before they can make some noise in support, or it needs to be some “big game”?
Blame the free market for that. Maybe fans might have more of a leg to stand on on the whole “serious money every week” part when they understand how limited players’ careers are, and more importantly, that all their wanking over the money in football is directly leading to that.
No, my argument is strengthened by exactly what you’re saying, because there’s so much mythologising about what the fans are, when the reality is that many of but not all of the fans, to put it bluntly, are absolute shite. Quick to moan, and at so many times, even under Jürgen, when we were fighting for something and needed their vocal support, were so silent that our players and manager had to try to gee up the crowd. Petty demands like needing the team to be on their game before they’ll deign to make some noise in support. That’s not how it works. For all the supposed arrogance of players, it seems as though so many of the fans have just gotten more and more entitled, especially with our recent success.
And it’s not new either, you can see so much discussion of this on TAN over the past few seasons.
Then don’t buy kits. Don’t subscribe to football broadcasts. Don’t buy tickets.
If you contribute to the club revenue, you contribute to the inflation of salaries in football.
And besides, if you think the club shouldn’t pay them as much as they do, then I’m sure we’ll still do fine attracting and retaining the players we want.
And not something that you personally do, but don’t wank over transfers.
Good luck to Trent in his future endeavors.
I’m disappointed to see him go, especially on a free, but such is life.
Hopefully there are no more boos today, and we see a win and a fitting celebration.
That’s about it really.
But I also want to say one comment about contracts. In pretty much any other industry, honoring the terms of the contract is about the be all and end all of it. Football is not any other industry! Transfer fees are a huge part of the finances of the football industry, so to ignore that aspect, and simply say he honored his contract, overlooks a significant aspect.
But I’m over it! Trent is off, we’ve got a party today, a parade tomorrow, and then a very exciting summer in the market to look forward to, before we go again. Love it!
